Manning betrayed his country by releasing everything he could get his hands on. He is truly an enemy of the system itself.
What are your thoughts on Snowden referring to Manning as an admirable heroic figure?
Manning betrayed his country by releasing everything he could get his hands on.
I think really there isn't a big difference between the two. Snowden is trusting Greenwald's discretion on what gets published, Manning trusted Wikileaks on what would be published (and recall that Wikileaks did go on to redact a lot of what Manning leaked). Snowden's problem was with eroding civil liberties, Manning's problem was the state carrying out immoral operations (actions which resulted in a loss of many innocent lives). I don't think the two are so markedly dissimilar. At least, besides Snowden being very astute and mature vs. Manning being a troubled, depressed individual with a sad history of personal problems (though, to Manning's credit the chat logs do reveal him to be a very morally aware person).
If you argue that Manning's leaks adversely affected America's geopolitical position, you also have to account for the business ramifications that will follow because of Snowden's leaks. Now all of Europe, Asia, etc. is going to be suspicious about Gmail, Facebook, etc. America just lost a bunch of business from non-American users.
"besides Snowden being very astute and mature vs. Manning being a troubled, depressed individual with a sad history of personal problems"
I am just waiting for all the personality attack pieces. About him not finishing high-school, perhaps some story from training buddies in the military about how he was erratic or behaved oddly and broke his own legs in a foolish way... it doesn't take much until it's easier to believe he was a one-off instead of a courageous and principled patriot who loves his country.
We are all human. For what it's worth any smear that comes his way now will not effect my image of him. He is untouchable.
wow. missed this bit. seems relevant, even if a smear..
<quote>[...] on the day the president [of the USoA] is meeting the Chinese leader,” Baer said, “telling us, listen, quit complaining about espionage and getting on the internet and our hacking. You are doing the same thing.”</quote>
Baer is friendly to the CIA, being a retired agent, and there is incentive for the CIA to muddy the waters. This could very well be the same motivations of a whistleblower. It also co-incided with the beginning of the Bradley Manning trial, did Baer talk about that?
I think really there isn't a big difference between the two. Snowden is trusting Greenwald's discretion on what gets published, Manning trusted Wikileaks on what would be published (and recall that Wikileaks did go on to redact a lot of what Manning leaked)
The big difference is that Manning didn't know what he was releasing.
Snowden himself mentioned the difference between his actions and Manning's. Seriously, go read the interview.
However admirable Snowden may have found Manning's principles, he demonstrated a much different of Manning's actions when he explained his decision to leak what he did.
To agree, and explain what you'd find in the interview:
He practically criticized Manning when he described how he went about preparing the release. There was no reason for him to talk about the meticulousness with which he chose what to leak except as a contrast to Manning.
Comments
What are your thoughts on Snowden referring to Manning as an admirable heroic figure?
I think really there isn't a big difference between the two. Snowden is trusting Greenwald's discretion on what gets published, Manning trusted Wikileaks on what would be published (and recall that Wikileaks did go on to redact a lot of what Manning leaked). Snowden's problem was with eroding civil liberties, Manning's problem was the state carrying out immoral operations (actions which resulted in a loss of many innocent lives). I don't think the two are so markedly dissimilar. At least, besides Snowden being very astute and mature vs. Manning being a troubled, depressed individual with a sad history of personal problems (though, to Manning's credit the chat logs do reveal him to be a very morally aware person).
If you argue that Manning's leaks adversely affected America's geopolitical position, you also have to account for the business ramifications that will follow because of Snowden's leaks. Now all of Europe, Asia, etc. is going to be suspicious about Gmail, Facebook, etc. America just lost a bunch of business from non-American users.
"besides Snowden being very astute and mature vs. Manning being a troubled, depressed individual with a sad history of personal problems"
I am just waiting for all the personality attack pieces. About him not finishing high-school, perhaps some story from training buddies in the military about how he was erratic or behaved oddly and broke his own legs in a foolish way... it doesn't take much until it's easier to believe he was a one-off instead of a courageous and principled patriot who loves his country.
We are all human. For what it's worth any smear that comes his way now will not effect my image of him. He is untouchable.
"Here come the smears: Snowden possibly a case of 'Chinese espionage"
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/former-cia-officer-officials-cons...
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/343949147210137600
wow. missed this bit. seems relevant, even if a smear..
<quote>[...] on the day the president [of the USoA] is meeting the Chinese leader,” Baer said, “telling us, listen, quit complaining about espionage and getting on the internet and our hacking. You are doing the same thing.”</quote>
Correlation is not causation.
Baer is friendly to the CIA, being a retired agent, and there is incentive for the CIA to muddy the waters. This could very well be the same motivations of a whistleblower. It also co-incided with the beginning of the Bradley Manning trial, did Baer talk about that?
Just as the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, the friend of your friend is not necessarily your friend, either.
The big difference is that Manning didn't know what he was releasing.
Snowden himself mentioned the difference between his actions and Manning's. Seriously, go read the interview.
However admirable Snowden may have found Manning's principles, he demonstrated a much different of Manning's actions when he explained his decision to leak what he did.
To agree, and explain what you'd find in the interview:
He practically criticized Manning when he described how he went about preparing the release. There was no reason for him to talk about the meticulousness with which he chose what to leak except as a contrast to Manning.