You can definitely see the effect of this within development teams too. I remember one specific exchange where a developer sent "X is broken" to the whole team, pretty much all of whom immediately read it and then started wondering how "X got broken." A minute later the OP sent "Oops my bad, typo." What is the cost of a two minute interruption for an entire team, or of the broken concentration, which probably lasts longer than the original interaction did?
Ha. I OC'd [corporate instant messenger] a 200 strong team (all, added to an OC a group, think corporate MSN, we sat next to each other, but nothing like this had been done before in our office) an open question "What does it make to be a strong [business line role]?"
It was quite fun seeing OC completely wipe out, but much more fun getting answers.
Even as connections were being wiped out due to latency, as being asked to hijack desks that still had connection. Some really insightful stuff that was irrelevant for anything 'in hand' but yet relevant, and that didn't usually come back through formal channels.
But, absolute OC wipe-out.
Some answers that came back were quite embarrassing, for all. It led to good things.
We bill $120 hourly. If the client CC the whole team on a problem, the whole team is going to take time off their current work to read the email. (5 mins * 6 workers) They are then going to reply to the message (2 mins * 6) and then investigate (10 mins * 6). A manager is likely going to step in and manage the team (30 mins). Finally, one developper is going to fix the issue (1 hour) and all the other developers are going to require getting back in "the zone" (average of 11 mins *6).
That's three hours (or $360) wasted for an email that should have been properly sent to the product manager or to the support team. If the client do this every week and nobody notice it and educate him, he is going to waste thousands a month of the project's budget.
What are you proposing? That when the client don't use the proper channels, we simply do the work for free?
We pride ourselves on how close to the client we are. If there is an emergency, they can email the team 24/7 and they will get a response. That doesn't come for free. If the client abuse of it, so be it, but they better be able to pay the bill at the end.
Approximately zero most of the time - and potentially hours of productive work. I really like this comic for it's accuracy and I've shared it with a few project managers at work so that they'd leave me alone.
A 10 second interruption is enough for me to lose 10 minutes of my time. Have twenty 10 second interruptions in the day and I've lost over 3 hours of productive time. Interrupt an entire team who potentially lose 10 minutes for that 10 second interruption and across a team of 10 people you've potentially lost 30 hours of productive time.
Less meaningless distractions is better.
Would you enjoy a book if I interrupted you every 3rd page for 15 seconds?
We're not discussing geological timescales here. All the teams I've worked on lose a lot more than the couple minutes after an all-hands "something's horribly broken! whoops, my bad" panic.
But if you're truly 10x like the HN community, that adds up to a whole 20 minutes of developer time! Adding this among an entire team adds up to hours.
Comments
You can definitely see the effect of this within development teams too. I remember one specific exchange where a developer sent "X is broken" to the whole team, pretty much all of whom immediately read it and then started wondering how "X got broken." A minute later the OP sent "Oops my bad, typo." What is the cost of a two minute interruption for an entire team, or of the broken concentration, which probably lasts longer than the original interaction did?
Ha. I OC'd [corporate instant messenger] a 200 strong team (all, added to an OC a group, think corporate MSN, we sat next to each other, but nothing like this had been done before in our office) an open question "What does it make to be a strong [business line role]?"
It was quite fun seeing OC completely wipe out, but much more fun getting answers.
Even as connections were being wiped out due to latency, as being asked to hijack desks that still had connection. Some really insightful stuff that was irrelevant for anything 'in hand' but yet relevant, and that didn't usually come back through formal channels.
But, absolute OC wipe-out.
Some answers that came back were quite embarrassing, for all. It led to good things.
Approximately zero.
No.
We bill $120 hourly. If the client CC the whole team on a problem, the whole team is going to take time off their current work to read the email. (5 mins * 6 workers) They are then going to reply to the message (2 mins * 6) and then investigate (10 mins * 6). A manager is likely going to step in and manage the team (30 mins). Finally, one developper is going to fix the issue (1 hour) and all the other developers are going to require getting back in "the zone" (average of 11 mins *6).
That's three hours (or $360) wasted for an email that should have been properly sent to the product manager or to the support team. If the client do this every week and nobody notice it and educate him, he is going to waste thousands a month of the project's budget.
I think we're answering different questions.
I commented on the ridiculousness of someone complaining about a couple of developers losing 2 minutes of productivity.
You're commenting on a problem client wasting hours of peoples times, at a company that apparently has no internal system to manage issues.
Judging by the down votes I got, everyone thinks the same as you. Ah well.
And what if that style of chatting and communication is the cultural norm, and such interruptions happen every few minutes, all day long?
I understand.
Still, disturbing a developper will set him back 10 to 20 mins depending on the individual and the study you choose to believe in.
My grandma had a saying for people like you- "they know the price of everything but the value of nothing."
Enlighten us. What is the value of the email about a nonexistent problem sent to the whole team?
What are you proposing? That when the client don't use the proper channels, we simply do the work for free?
We pride ourselves on how close to the client we are. If there is an emergency, they can email the team 24/7 and they will get a response. That doesn't come for free. If the client abuse of it, so be it, but they better be able to pay the bill at the end.
I'm so glad you referred to your Grandmother to support an online discussion. What an insightful and relevant reference!
Approximately zero most of the time - and potentially hours of productive work. I really like this comic for it's accuracy and I've shared it with a few project managers at work so that they'd leave me alone.
https://i.imgur.com/3uyRWGJ.jpg
A 10 second interruption is enough for me to lose 10 minutes of my time. Have twenty 10 second interruptions in the day and I've lost over 3 hours of productive time. Interrupt an entire team who potentially lose 10 minutes for that 10 second interruption and across a team of 10 people you've potentially lost 30 hours of productive time.
Less meaningless distractions is better.
Would you enjoy a book if I interrupted you every 3rd page for 15 seconds?
I love that comic. It is so dead on.
I get your point, but this "Have twenty 10 second interruptions in the day and I've lost over 3 hours of productive time" is ridiculous.
Yes, interruptions are exactly that - interruptions. No, a 2 second message accidentally sent to the entire team should not be the end of the world.
We're not discussing geological timescales here. All the teams I've worked on lose a lot more than the couple minutes after an all-hands "something's horribly broken! whoops, my bad" panic.
But if you're truly 10x like the HN community, that adds up to a whole 20 minutes of developer time! Adding this among an entire team adds up to hours.