Is there something like this for kids? Been teaching my kids to program and I cant find one easy enough to use (ages 5-9) outside of PPT (yes, I consider slide transitions programming). Scratch is ok but its not fun enough for them or maybe too advanced.
I don't have a direct answer for you (still researching), but if you haven't read Mindstorms by Seymour Papert [1], I highly recommend it. It's generally about how computing can help kids learn problem solving in a variety of contexts, including several bits about the LOGO programming language. It's from '88, so it is definitely dated, but many of the concepts are pretty timeless.
You might also find the free community edition of LiveCode[1] handy. At a glance, looks very much like HyperCard. There is also Microsoft's Project Sienna[2] if you are on Windows 8.
What would you expect a 9 yo to accomplish regarding programming? What do you teach them? (it's just a question,not a criticism,before you downvote in mass)
I started programming in HyperCard around age 7-8. The first things I did were basically interactive stories - think Myst with stick figures and a really childish plot/simplicity. Drawing pictures, placing buttons over them that took you to different pictures with more buttons. Dialogs with questions and multiple choice answer buttons. Eventually adding variables that would remember things that happened before and use those to change behavior later in the game.
I also had fun composing really bad melodies with the HyperCard sound command (that let you enter notes - it'd scale whatever sound effect in pitch)
edit: the greatest learning tools for me were all the included sample stacks. Tearing apart and editing those and the code that made them tick was an amazing learning experience ("oh! so instead of making 50 buttons, I can make one button, and do this thing with the mouse position and some math [something they make me do in school that I otherwise find pointless] and figure out which section was clicked!")
Having used scratch (very cool) I have been using the beta to teach them things like - this image is an ~object~ and it has properties. Look how we can tell it to change these properties over time etc. Its more conceptual than "this is the syntax of an if statement in objective-c". Pretty cool so far (as cool as scratch, just different)
From what I've heard of HyperCard and learning programming languages, children definitely could create a small game, short animation or interactive story. At nine years old, it would probably be rudimentary, but they could learn the basics. Without meaning to be rude, this question's like asking "What would you expect a nine year old to accomplish regarding writing and drawing?"
If you don't like that analogy, consider how children often learn the basics of woodworking or sewing through small projects that might not be useful or even be completed. Programming could work the same way.
>"What would you expect a
>nine year old to accomplish
>regarding writing and drawing?
I'm no teacher, i dont have kids and dont remember myself being one. My question is about the content of the teaching.What does the the parent teach them, and how he does it,nothing more . I'm not sure what your point is.
Programming tools like Logo and HyperCard give children a chance to be creative, like writing and drawing do.
Beyond self-expression, children could learn the basics of
* interaction design ("'Click here' doesn't explain what a button does"),
* debugging ("It's okay to be wrong at first. I can just keep fixing it until it works")
* and geometry ("I can make a shape look more like a circle if I give it more sides").
EDIT: Here's a neat example of HyperCard's power: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=568. It's a bit complicated for a child, but it gives you a sense of HyperCard's potential.
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Is there something like this for kids? Been teaching my kids to program and I cant find one easy enough to use (ages 5-9) outside of PPT (yes, I consider slide transitions programming). Scratch is ok but its not fun enough for them or maybe too advanced.
I don't have a direct answer for you (still researching), but if you haven't read Mindstorms by Seymour Papert [1], I highly recommend it. It's generally about how computing can help kids learn problem solving in a variety of contexts, including several bits about the LOGO programming language. It's from '88, so it is definitely dated, but many of the concepts are pretty timeless.
[1] http://www.amazon.com/Mindstorms-Children-Computers-Powerful...
You might also find the free community edition of LiveCode[1] handy. At a glance, looks very much like HyperCard. There is also Microsoft's Project Sienna[2] if you are on Windows 8.
[1] http://livecode.com/download/ [2] http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/microsoft-projec...
What would you expect a 9 yo to accomplish regarding programming? What do you teach them? (it's just a question,not a criticism,before you downvote in mass)
I started programming in HyperCard around age 7-8. The first things I did were basically interactive stories - think Myst with stick figures and a really childish plot/simplicity. Drawing pictures, placing buttons over them that took you to different pictures with more buttons. Dialogs with questions and multiple choice answer buttons. Eventually adding variables that would remember things that happened before and use those to change behavior later in the game.
I also had fun composing really bad melodies with the HyperCard sound command (that let you enter notes - it'd scale whatever sound effect in pitch)
edit: the greatest learning tools for me were all the included sample stacks. Tearing apart and editing those and the code that made them tick was an amazing learning experience ("oh! so instead of making 50 buttons, I can make one button, and do this thing with the mouse position and some math [something they make me do in school that I otherwise find pointless] and figure out which section was clicked!")
Having used scratch (very cool) I have been using the beta to teach them things like - this image is an ~object~ and it has properties. Look how we can tell it to change these properties over time etc. Its more conceptual than "this is the syntax of an if statement in objective-c". Pretty cool so far (as cool as scratch, just different)
From what I've heard of HyperCard and learning programming languages, children definitely could create a small game, short animation or interactive story. At nine years old, it would probably be rudimentary, but they could learn the basics. Without meaning to be rude, this question's like asking "What would you expect a nine year old to accomplish regarding writing and drawing?"
If you don't like that analogy, consider how children often learn the basics of woodworking or sewing through small projects that might not be useful or even be completed. Programming could work the same way.
Programming tools like Logo and HyperCard give children a chance to be creative, like writing and drawing do.
Beyond self-expression, children could learn the basics of
* interaction design ("'Click here' doesn't explain what a button does"),
* debugging ("It's okay to be wrong at first. I can just keep fixing it until it works")
* and geometry ("I can make a shape look more like a circle if I give it more sides").
EDIT: Here's a neat example of HyperCard's power: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=568. It's a bit complicated for a child, but it gives you a sense of HyperCard's potential.
Also, while this tale starts with seventh grade (13 years old?) -- I should think kids these days start out considerably more computer literate:
"Learning About Smalltalk" http://www.atariarchives.org/bcc1/showpage.php?page=61
"My name is Marian Goldeen. (...) I would like to tell you about how I got started working with computers at Xerox and the class I taught."
I started coding at the age of 10 on a ZX Spectrum back in the early 80's with BASIC.
So I would expect a 9 year old to be able to write simple programs, drawing simple 2D figures or question/answer programs.