Since when has Hacker News, with its highly entrepreneurial core, ever so viciously attacked publicity? I haven't read NKS, so maybe I don't understand the depths of this man's capital offense, but I see nothing in your list that any smart business won't do. Maybe it isn't revolutionary (whatever that means), but it's a damn cool project that's going to be useful to a lot of people, and isn't that all we care about?
Isn't it because the revolutionary product/idea cannot win followers and reputation solely on its merits?
If the odds are worse without promotion, what rational human wouldn't use it?
Since when has Hacker News, with its highly entrepreneurial core, ever so viciously attacked publicity?
I believe the last time was Cuil.
Being able to work the hype machine is great, but if you generate more hype than you can deliver on it hurts your image. Since A New Kind of Science was similarly underwhelming, not to mention even more pretentiously hyped, many are cynical.
Cuil's sin was failing at a solved problem, and most plainly, trying to be a "Google killer" (I believe they lectured Google on the size of their search database before they even launched).
NLP answer engines aren't a solved problem, and WA was a pretty decent 1.0. Sure it failed techcrunch's vanity test, but for what Wolfram promised in those videos, it performs.
I think what you're saying is true, but it's orthogonal to my point. Both of them generated more hype than they delivered on in their launches and people were underwhelmed. That WA has more promise is a separate matter.
It is interesting to parallel Wolfram with Thinking Machines founders.
It is a rather little known fact that, trained through TM catastrophe, its founders went on to form a stealth company, called Ab Initio, which is wildly successful despite having no marketing. Indeed they're actively avoiding it through NDA contracts to the point that general public doesn't exactly know what exactly their products do.
I am not ridiculing Wolfram, just wanted to point that above is as an interesting anecdote.
Since when has Hacker News, with its highly entrepreneurial core, ever so viciously attacked publicity?
Since when polluting valuable community information resource with paid commercial fluff became acceptable?
Aggressive promotion poisons the well for everybody. People come to HN for the honest information and opinion exchange with the like-minded, not to be bombarded with PR.
And by the way, I remember time when NH core were not get-rick-quick wannabes but engineers and, well, hackers. Which does not exclude being entrepreneurial. It just means being not easy for some 'smart business' to manipulate.
If the odds are worse without promotion, what rational human wouldn't use it?
The one that is familiar with game theory. Defection does work in the trusting, cooperative environment. First time. After that the community switches to 'tit-for-tat' strategy and bans the aggressor into oblivion. Or core of the community decamps to greener pastures leaving 'smart businesses' and their shills to their task of filling communal cesspit with more crap.
Since when polluting valuable community information resource with paid commercial fluff became acceptable?
I fail to see what pollution has happened here. Both NKS and Wolfram Alpha are pretty serious endeavours, that most hackers should be aware and probably interested in.
Aggressive promotion poisons the well for everybody. People come to HN for the honest information and opinion exchange with the like-minded, not to be bombarded with PR.
You're mixing various concepts here... "Aggressive promotion" is, effectively, what most entrepreneurs need to do at some point to get some users on the system. The problem is not with promotion or how aggressive with it. The problem is with "unethical", brutal, blunt promotion, like spam.
I don't think anyone here has something against "aggressive promotion" in the form of interesting information that happens to relate to something that someone is building. Except for you, perhaps.
Comments
Since when has Hacker News, with its highly entrepreneurial core, ever so viciously attacked publicity? I haven't read NKS, so maybe I don't understand the depths of this man's capital offense, but I see nothing in your list that any smart business won't do. Maybe it isn't revolutionary (whatever that means), but it's a damn cool project that's going to be useful to a lot of people, and isn't that all we care about?
Isn't it because the revolutionary product/idea cannot win followers and reputation solely on its merits?
If the odds are worse without promotion, what rational human wouldn't use it?
Since when has Hacker News, with its highly entrepreneurial core, ever so viciously attacked publicity?
I believe the last time was Cuil.
Being able to work the hype machine is great, but if you generate more hype than you can deliver on it hurts your image. Since A New Kind of Science was similarly underwhelming, not to mention even more pretentiously hyped, many are cynical.
I believe the last time was Cuil.
Cuil's sin was failing at a solved problem, and most plainly, trying to be a "Google killer" (I believe they lectured Google on the size of their search database before they even launched).
NLP answer engines aren't a solved problem, and WA was a pretty decent 1.0. Sure it failed techcrunch's vanity test, but for what Wolfram promised in those videos, it performs.
I think what you're saying is true, but it's orthogonal to my point. Both of them generated more hype than they delivered on in their launches and people were underwhelmed. That WA has more promise is a separate matter.
It is interesting to parallel Wolfram with Thinking Machines founders.
It is a rather little known fact that, trained through TM catastrophe, its founders went on to form a stealth company, called Ab Initio, which is wildly successful despite having no marketing. Indeed they're actively avoiding it through NDA contracts to the point that general public doesn't exactly know what exactly their products do.
I am not ridiculing Wolfram, just wanted to point that above is as an interesting anecdote.
Since when has Hacker News, with its highly entrepreneurial core, ever so viciously attacked publicity?
Since when polluting valuable community information resource with paid commercial fluff became acceptable?
Aggressive promotion poisons the well for everybody. People come to HN for the honest information and opinion exchange with the like-minded, not to be bombarded with PR.
And by the way, I remember time when NH core were not get-rick-quick wannabes but engineers and, well, hackers. Which does not exclude being entrepreneurial. It just means being not easy for some 'smart business' to manipulate.
If the odds are worse without promotion, what rational human wouldn't use it?
The one that is familiar with game theory. Defection does work in the trusting, cooperative environment. First time. After that the community switches to 'tit-for-tat' strategy and bans the aggressor into oblivion. Or core of the community decamps to greener pastures leaving 'smart businesses' and their shills to their task of filling communal cesspit with more crap.
Since when polluting valuable community information resource with paid commercial fluff became acceptable?
I fail to see what pollution has happened here. Both NKS and Wolfram Alpha are pretty serious endeavours, that most hackers should be aware and probably interested in.
Aggressive promotion poisons the well for everybody. People come to HN for the honest information and opinion exchange with the like-minded, not to be bombarded with PR.
You're mixing various concepts here... "Aggressive promotion" is, effectively, what most entrepreneurs need to do at some point to get some users on the system. The problem is not with promotion or how aggressive with it. The problem is with "unethical", brutal, blunt promotion, like spam.
I don't think anyone here has something against "aggressive promotion" in the form of interesting information that happens to relate to something that someone is building. Except for you, perhaps.
I don't think anyone here has something against "aggressive promotion" in the form of interesting information
I think you are the only one here enjoying reading PR releases. This sure looks like spamming (or a good PR work):
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site:news.ycombinator.com+w...