Paul Revere, "in the Fall of 1774 and winter of 1775, I was one of upwards of thirty, chiefly mechanics, who formed ourselves into a Committee for the purpose of watching British soldiers and gaining every intelligence on the movements of the Tories."[1]
Paul Revere was essentially one of the founding members of this country's counter intelligence program against his oppressive government. He was the first in a long line of Mark Felts, Bradley Mannings and Edward Snowdens of this country.
If we have a system where these whistleblowers are stopped before they can leak information on the system that catches them before they can whistleblow there is no turning back. This would not be the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA without Paul Revere and Edward Snowden.
Did Paul Revere gather intelligence concerning both sides, and release everything he had to both sides, so that he would help his enemies as much as he helped his friends, and hurt his friends as much as he hurt his enemies?
If no, then the long line Revere is the first in does not include Manning.
Manning's own statements to Lamo that the Army put him up for an award for his counterintelligence work which was used to identify and 'break up' insurgent cells.
You do realize that Paul Revere would by that logic be considered a founding member of the country's counter intelligence program against enemies of the U.S. as well, right? I.e. the NSA.
As far as Revere was concerned he was way past fighting against his government; he was fighting to support his country against Britain's government.
What are you talking about? Britain was his government/country. By today's definitions the man was a terrorist aid. The founding fathers were all terrorists doing things like the Boston Tea Party and shooting only officers when rules of the day prohibited that kind of behavior.
Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence? It didn't just declare that a new nation exists. It declared why that action was taken, and made clear that the action wasn't being taken lightly:
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
And later,
The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.
Seriously, read the whole thing. It is a wonderful document which stands on its own, and explains why these Americans no longer considered themselves British, and also why it was not some mere disagreement with their government.
Now, are you going to claim that government operation of a legally-instituted (and reviewed!) program that the majority of the population supports is "absolute Tyranny" with the sole purpose of oppression of the American populace?
I'm just saying, I'd prefer we at least attempt to give the press, the EFF, the ACLU, and the concerned citizenry such as myself and many of my own friends a shot at fixing it before we go saying that violence and terror is the answer.
I'm not saying violence and terror is the answer. I believe the answer is we have to infiltrate the government itself. I don't want to be a politician but I see no other way to fix the US at this point.
As many of us as possible need to join the ranks of governments and start slowly making changes. Some of us will be voted out quickly, some of us will fall to corruption but if enough of us can keep our ideals we could turn this around. But voting and protesting aren't going to work.
Yes, but the US government is now in the position the * British government* was then. So telling them that their actions will prevent another Paul Revere isn't going to win them to your side.
Comments
Paul Revere, "in the Fall of 1774 and winter of 1775, I was one of upwards of thirty, chiefly mechanics, who formed ourselves into a Committee for the purpose of watching British soldiers and gaining every intelligence on the movements of the Tories."[1]
Paul Revere was essentially one of the founding members of this country's counter intelligence program against his oppressive government. He was the first in a long line of Mark Felts, Bradley Mannings and Edward Snowdens of this country.
If we have a system where these whistleblowers are stopped before they can leak information on the system that catches them before they can whistleblow there is no turning back. This would not be the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA without Paul Revere and Edward Snowden.
[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_in_the_American_Re...
Did Paul Revere gather intelligence concerning both sides, and release everything he had to both sides, so that he would help his enemies as much as he helped his friends, and hurt his friends as much as he hurt his enemies?
If no, then the long line Revere is the first in does not include Manning.
Do you have any evidence that Manning hurt his enemies?
Manning's own statements to Lamo that the Army put him up for an award for his counterintelligence work which was used to identify and 'break up' insurgent cells.
So... The army said so?
I'll try to type slower this time.
Manning. Said. So.
By that definition, the Manning line doesn't even include Manning.
You do realize that Paul Revere would by that logic be considered a founding member of the country's counter intelligence program against enemies of the U.S. as well, right? I.e. the NSA.
As far as Revere was concerned he was way past fighting against his government; he was fighting to support his country against Britain's government.
What are you talking about? Britain was his government/country. By today's definitions the man was a terrorist aid. The founding fathers were all terrorists doing things like the Boston Tea Party and shooting only officers when rules of the day prohibited that kind of behavior.
Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence? It didn't just declare that a new nation exists. It declared why that action was taken, and made clear that the action wasn't being taken lightly:
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transc...
And later,
Seriously, read the whole thing. It is a wonderful document which stands on its own, and explains why these Americans no longer considered themselves British, and also why it was not some mere disagreement with their government.
Now, are you going to claim that government operation of a legally-instituted (and reviewed!) program that the majority of the population supports is "absolute Tyranny" with the sole purpose of oppression of the American populace?
I'm just saying, I'd prefer we at least attempt to give the press, the EFF, the ACLU, and the concerned citizenry such as myself and many of my own friends a shot at fixing it before we go saying that violence and terror is the answer.
I'm not saying violence and terror is the answer. I believe the answer is we have to infiltrate the government itself. I don't want to be a politician but I see no other way to fix the US at this point.
As many of us as possible need to join the ranks of governments and start slowly making changes. Some of us will be voted out quickly, some of us will fall to corruption but if enough of us can keep our ideals we could turn this around. But voting and protesting aren't going to work.
Yes, but the US government is now in the position the * British government* was then. So telling them that their actions will prevent another Paul Revere isn't going to win them to your side.