Ultimately the common thread in most of these cases seems to be a lack of purpose and meaning in life in general, not really an issue with the specific work environment.
The purpose of life is to make meaningful human connections, become wiser, become a better person. This is something that some combination of family, traditional social structures and religion used to provide for a lot of people.
"Create shareholder value at my current startup" obviously isn't going to scratch that itch in the same way. It's no wonder people end up feeling "burnt out" - that's your brain telling you that what you're doing is ultimately pointless, and your brain is absolutely right.
Treat work first and foremost as a means to an end, not an end in itself, and generally you'll be happier. You can (and should) take pleasure from your craft and a job well done, but honestly who cares how your Series A goes.
"Work coaching" or whatever this article is advertising will probably not help you at all
In my case, my work is being devalued by AI.[0] The same effort nets smaller and smaller returns every month, even though the work is _still_ necessary, because AI does not do original investigative work. It's hard to put work into something that might vanish in a few months.
I'm starting to feel something a lot like how people describe burnout. I need to do a bunch of different things to stay afloat, but I ain't got any gas left in the tank.
I find pleasure in other aspects of my life, but I still need to put a roof over my head.
I'm feeling the same way, and when I brought it up to some friends in tech it turned out in our group of 8 I was the least depressed.
The wife of another friend of mine confided in me that AI replacing his work in such a short time has made him depressed to the point she's getting scared he'll hurt himself.
I think we need a support group or something. But I'm too busy burning the candle at both ends trying to "catch the lifeboat" before its too late. So are most other engineers I know.
I'm sorry you're going through this but know not only are you not alone, but you're in the majority of software developers at this point (I think, anecdotally).
Thanks for writing this. This is how support groups start, when people find out that they're not the only ones going through this.
When I opened up to friends (and wrote that post), it encouraged a whole lot of people to also open up. We shared tricks, talked it out, and just felt a little bit more seen.
The purpose of life is to make meaningful human connections, become wiser, become a better person
That maybe your own opinion. The older I get the more I realize that the ignorance is bliss - the less I know the better, nothing drains my energy more than human connections and I don't have to be better or worse, I'm just perfect the way I am and if anyone doesn't like that, it's their problem and not mine.
Yeah, I'm not sure I find either your or the parent comment's experience totally reflective of my own, but I definitely agree that I don't think the "purpose of life" is a very well-agreed upon thing. People have debated it for pretty much all of human history, and I'm not sure how anyone can reach any sort of conclusion that isn't fully personal to their own experience (I guess I lean towards existentialism)
Ironicly, in these cases more work can help the burnout. When you work 80 hours per week you are so busy you never notice you are not making meaningful human connections. When you only work 30 that leaves plenty of time to look at your own life and realize it isn't meaningful.
That shouldn't be taken as a sign that working more is good. It is a sign you need to fix your personal life which isn't easy. Work can be a useful part of making and keeping personal connections, but it shouldn't be the only part of it.
same logic applies to using drugs to self-soothe. if you're high all the time, you have no time to realistically engage with the material realities of your socio-emotional life and health. instead of taking the time to reflect on past actions and develop insight on how you're relating with others or living your life, you just work instead. and, in the meantime, dissonance compounds as background radiation
eventually that just leads to an even bigger crashout, burnout, break. Sinclair Lewis parodied this as early as 1922 in Babbitt [0], depicting a man who is economically satisfied and fits perfectly the mold of the white picket life and yet is devoid of meaning and satisfaction. he then spends his years in the wilderness crashing out before stumbling back into conformity because he knows nothing else
you can find meaning outside of work in so many ways. joining a small organizing group, help run mutual aid efforts, even dipping a toe into civic engagement. disentangle achieving goals that signify success from living your values and you'll be on your way to a better regulated life [1]
The purpose of life is to make meaningful human connections, become wiser, become a better person.
These are nice things. But let's be honest, there is no objective purpose in life beyond the biological imperative. Purpose is subjective, and people will find that on their own. Or not.
There is no singular “purpose of life”, different people are built differently and experience the world in their own way.
Some are lucky enough to get meaning from the default path of those around them, some have trouble finding a way that works for them.
Every person should consider what their own purpose is (and why, and what “purpose” even means for them) or they will be held in thrall to the social forces around them. If they don’t fundamentally align with those forces, they will have a bad time, and they may blame themselves rather than recognizing that they should seek a different path.
"Create shareholder value at my current startup" obviously isn't going to scratch that itch in the same way.
I would add a little nuance. One thing is your job isn't advancing Humanity Progress in a very direct and unambiguous way, say you work for some Very Important Organization that Does Good All the Time. Another thing is your job is totally useless or even harmful to society.
Maybe most of us are in between?
I've worked at dysfunctional companies that made me personally unhappy (busyworks, company politics, waste, bad bosses, bad teammates...) that somehow made some good things in the grand scheme of things, other that made me very happy with more neutral results.
Someone has to do mundane things, even to raise children and give a chance to the next generation to improve the world.
I don't believe putting too much thought in purpose is healthy.
Oftentimes it's undiagnosed health issues, such as vitamin deficiencies and/or malabsorption conditions such as gluten intolerance preventing proper vitamin levels, that can present much like "inexplicable" burnout, imho.
Do you think it could be a combination of things? Like, in order to avoid burnout you need some degree of meaning but also some degree of success and positive work environment.
I'm coming at this from the perspective that I've been struggling with a lot of burn out and I'm mostly proud of who I am and what I do but I'm stressed because I constantly have to compensate for society's failure to reward people's contributions.
That could just be me though. I definitely agree that I think that meaning and purpose is a big thing that people are missing now.
I don't think you're unusual at all. The modern world is almost designed to make you crazy in some ways and makes it harder than it ideally would be to achieve these ideals (which is what they are, we're all human and none of us can achieve this all the time).
Unfortunately largely it is what it is and can't be changed, the only thing we can change is how we choose to respond to it
not really an issue with the specific work environment.
I’ve contributed some time in a mentoring group. Many of the cases people would call “burnout” had little to do with their work. Once they started talking details about their life situation it would become obvious that their problems ran deeper, but blaming work was an easy way to externalize it and place the blame on easy villains: Corporations, capitalism, managers, coworkers.
There were a lot of situations like this where someone would get a new job, take fewer hours, or even some people requested demotions and took a pay cut. Then when nothing changed about their well-being, they’d shift to blaming something new at work. I talked to people who could seemingly find ways to “burnout” in every situation they’ve encountered from high school through job hopping. It’s really hard to get someone to accept that maybe the problem is running deeper than their environment, and maybe something they’re doing (unintentionally, I’m not trying to place blame) is actually leading to this outcome over and over again.
I agree that work coaching is not the solution. It presumes the diagnosis and anchors blame to work, which starts obscuring possibilities outside of that pre-chosen explanation. Regular old therapy from a trained therapist is probably a better place to start. Might be cheaper, too, especially if insurance is involved.
Comments
Ultimately the common thread in most of these cases seems to be a lack of purpose and meaning in life in general, not really an issue with the specific work environment.
The purpose of life is to make meaningful human connections, become wiser, become a better person. This is something that some combination of family, traditional social structures and religion used to provide for a lot of people.
"Create shareholder value at my current startup" obviously isn't going to scratch that itch in the same way. It's no wonder people end up feeling "burnt out" - that's your brain telling you that what you're doing is ultimately pointless, and your brain is absolutely right.
Treat work first and foremost as a means to an end, not an end in itself, and generally you'll be happier. You can (and should) take pleasure from your craft and a job well done, but honestly who cares how your Series A goes.
"Work coaching" or whatever this article is advertising will probably not help you at all
In my case, my work is being devalued by AI.[0] The same effort nets smaller and smaller returns every month, even though the work is _still_ necessary, because AI does not do original investigative work. It's hard to put work into something that might vanish in a few months.
I'm starting to feel something a lot like how people describe burnout. I need to do a bunch of different things to stay afloat, but I ain't got any gas left in the tank.
I find pleasure in other aspects of my life, but I still need to put a roof over my head.
[0] https://nicolasbouliane.com/blog/death-by-ai
I'm feeling the same way, and when I brought it up to some friends in tech it turned out in our group of 8 I was the least depressed.
The wife of another friend of mine confided in me that AI replacing his work in such a short time has made him depressed to the point she's getting scared he'll hurt himself.
I think we need a support group or something. But I'm too busy burning the candle at both ends trying to "catch the lifeboat" before its too late. So are most other engineers I know.
I'm sorry you're going through this but know not only are you not alone, but you're in the majority of software developers at this point (I think, anecdotally).
Thanks for writing this. This is how support groups start, when people find out that they're not the only ones going through this.
When I opened up to friends (and wrote that post), it encouraged a whole lot of people to also open up. We shared tricks, talked it out, and just felt a little bit more seen.
That goes along way.
Couple that with the climate crisis and political breakdown, and you've got a stew going.
Ready to join the revolution, comrades?
That maybe your own opinion. The older I get the more I realize that the ignorance is bliss - the less I know the better, nothing drains my energy more than human connections and I don't have to be better or worse, I'm just perfect the way I am and if anyone doesn't like that, it's their problem and not mine.
Yeah, I'm not sure I find either your or the parent comment's experience totally reflective of my own, but I definitely agree that I don't think the "purpose of life" is a very well-agreed upon thing. People have debated it for pretty much all of human history, and I'm not sure how anyone can reach any sort of conclusion that isn't fully personal to their own experience (I guess I lean towards existentialism)
You forgot the /s
I mean it, not being sarcastic
Ironicly, in these cases more work can help the burnout. When you work 80 hours per week you are so busy you never notice you are not making meaningful human connections. When you only work 30 that leaves plenty of time to look at your own life and realize it isn't meaningful.
That shouldn't be taken as a sign that working more is good. It is a sign you need to fix your personal life which isn't easy. Work can be a useful part of making and keeping personal connections, but it shouldn't be the only part of it.
same logic applies to using drugs to self-soothe. if you're high all the time, you have no time to realistically engage with the material realities of your socio-emotional life and health. instead of taking the time to reflect on past actions and develop insight on how you're relating with others or living your life, you just work instead. and, in the meantime, dissonance compounds as background radiation
eventually that just leads to an even bigger crashout, burnout, break. Sinclair Lewis parodied this as early as 1922 in Babbitt [0], depicting a man who is economically satisfied and fits perfectly the mold of the white picket life and yet is devoid of meaning and satisfaction. he then spends his years in the wilderness crashing out before stumbling back into conformity because he knows nothing else
you can find meaning outside of work in so many ways. joining a small organizing group, help run mutual aid efforts, even dipping a toe into civic engagement. disentangle achieving goals that signify success from living your values and you'll be on your way to a better regulated life [1]
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_(novel)
[1] https://psychwire.com/free-resources/expert-insights/resourc...
Until you slow down because you are sick, or you just get a slow day at work, and get time to do a bit of reflection.
Burnout is learned and/or imposed helplessness. When your agency is missing it's like part of you is dying.
Can you expand on that? I’m not sure I agree, and at the same time I think you might be saying something profound that I haven’t understood.
These are nice things. But let's be honest, there is no objective purpose in life beyond the biological imperative. Purpose is subjective, and people will find that on their own. Or not.
There is no singular “purpose of life”, different people are built differently and experience the world in their own way.
Some are lucky enough to get meaning from the default path of those around them, some have trouble finding a way that works for them.
Every person should consider what their own purpose is (and why, and what “purpose” even means for them) or they will be held in thrall to the social forces around them. If they don’t fundamentally align with those forces, they will have a bad time, and they may blame themselves rather than recognizing that they should seek a different path.
The purpose of life is to make more life (children). Life forms that do not do that die out. Having children give you so much fulfillment and purpose.
There is a good book on this topic "Selfish reasons to have more kids" https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/book-review-selfish-reasons...
"Create shareholder value at my current startup" obviously isn't going to scratch that itch in the same way.
I would add a little nuance. One thing is your job isn't advancing Humanity Progress in a very direct and unambiguous way, say you work for some Very Important Organization that Does Good All the Time. Another thing is your job is totally useless or even harmful to society.
Maybe most of us are in between?
I've worked at dysfunctional companies that made me personally unhappy (busyworks, company politics, waste, bad bosses, bad teammates...) that somehow made some good things in the grand scheme of things, other that made me very happy with more neutral results.
Someone has to do mundane things, even to raise children and give a chance to the next generation to improve the world.
I don't believe putting too much thought in purpose is healthy.
Oftentimes it's undiagnosed health issues, such as vitamin deficiencies and/or malabsorption conditions such as gluten intolerance preventing proper vitamin levels, that can present much like "inexplicable" burnout, imho.
Do you think it could be a combination of things? Like, in order to avoid burnout you need some degree of meaning but also some degree of success and positive work environment.
I'm coming at this from the perspective that I've been struggling with a lot of burn out and I'm mostly proud of who I am and what I do but I'm stressed because I constantly have to compensate for society's failure to reward people's contributions.
That could just be me though. I definitely agree that I think that meaning and purpose is a big thing that people are missing now.
I don't think you're unusual at all. The modern world is almost designed to make you crazy in some ways and makes it harder than it ideally would be to achieve these ideals (which is what they are, we're all human and none of us can achieve this all the time).
Unfortunately largely it is what it is and can't be changed, the only thing we can change is how we choose to respond to it
I’ve contributed some time in a mentoring group. Many of the cases people would call “burnout” had little to do with their work. Once they started talking details about their life situation it would become obvious that their problems ran deeper, but blaming work was an easy way to externalize it and place the blame on easy villains: Corporations, capitalism, managers, coworkers.
There were a lot of situations like this where someone would get a new job, take fewer hours, or even some people requested demotions and took a pay cut. Then when nothing changed about their well-being, they’d shift to blaming something new at work. I talked to people who could seemingly find ways to “burnout” in every situation they’ve encountered from high school through job hopping. It’s really hard to get someone to accept that maybe the problem is running deeper than their environment, and maybe something they’re doing (unintentionally, I’m not trying to place blame) is actually leading to this outcome over and over again.
I agree that work coaching is not the solution. It presumes the diagnosis and anchors blame to work, which starts obscuring possibilities outside of that pre-chosen explanation. Regular old therapy from a trained therapist is probably a better place to start. Might be cheaper, too, especially if insurance is involved.