Are you serious?! This was a professional event. There is a known issue with lack of women in tech. Dell specifically has a site dedicated to encouraging women in tech. Women have come out again and again and said that these sorts of jokes are offensive and put other women off going into tech jobs. Why would anyone in their right mind deliberately go out of their way to make women uncomfortable?
men aren't oppressed in our society and
especially our industry
Are you sure about that? Calling people out and giving them a bad rep over silly jokes sure looks like oppression to me.
Jokes have been historically used by oppressed people to express their frustrations. Not saying it's the same thing here, but trying to ban humor, even if it is politically incorrect, is really not OK.
The world would be a much better place if we smiled more.
Jokes have been historically used by oppressed people to express their frustrations. Not saying it's the same thing here, but trying to ban humor, even if it is politically incorrect, is really not OK.
Nobody is trying to ban edgy/dark humor. But there is a time and a place for that. A corporate event is not that place.
The world would be a much better place if we smiled more.
1. Adult jokes are fine in a stand up comedy, not everywhere.
2. He targeted only women, if he made jokes targeted at both men and women equally, then this situation may be different.
That said, there are enough places where sexist jokes are made at men - by both men and women. Nobody complains and nobody cares. That is just the way it is :(
Adult jokes are fine with adults. I don't get why do you want some sterile "professionalism". We are humans, at work or at home. Should we put wigs on to look even more professional?
And jokes about some gender stereotype are not necessarily sexist.
I, for one, welcome the world where nobody complains about jokes.
It scary to think that we are coming closer and closer to Orvelian "thought crime" :(
> It scary to think that we are coming closer and closer to Orvelian "thought crime" :(
Oh for fuck's sake, it's not thought when words are uttered out loud. It's also not crime when free people freely protested the free speech of a free individual who has not been punished by any government.
Godwin's Law should be updated to include Orwell's fictions because nobody seems to have a sense of perspective about them.
> I, for one, welcome the world where nobody complains about jokes.
And I would welcome a world where everyone thinks for two seconds about what it's like to be a constant target of said jokes, uses their basic human empathy to listen to said complaints, and then reasons about it for a while instead of defensively dismissing the complaints with a privileged wave of the hand.
Nope, this is not about thought crime. I could have the filthiest, dirtiest thoughts - nobody will complain about that. Problem starts, when I give words to those thoughts.
For example, imagine a fat person (or a short person, or a ugly person, bald person etc) - is it okay to make fun of his/her fatness, shortness etc, all day long? how would that person feel?
This has nothing to do with "professionalism". It is about just being as much nice to fellow humans as possible.
And according to the article, this Christensen guy is supposed to be "motivational speaker" - what kind of motivation, I can't understand.
The worst thing out of this episode is this - there are lots of nice men in the IT industry, who genuinely want more women in the industry. They'd like to help, and do everything they can to make IT more appealing to women - then routinely, a couple of times a month, these incidents occur - and it gives the entire IT industry a bad name, undoing all the good work done by others.
This didn't sound like an inclusive equal-opportunity roast, which could have been funny. If it had been, he would have been making fun of men in tech as well. As it stands, it seems like he was only making fun of the (few) women present, singling them out for ridicule.
If they had hired a comedian who singled out men in tech as neckbeard virgin nerds, and played on stereotypes, I think it would be almost as unacceptable. "Unacceptable" because it's an obnoxious stereotype, "almost" because men are still the majority/power group in tech and can take it more easily than the outnumbered female minority.
Comments
Of course Dell apologises but people really need to get a grip. A comedian makes jokes, often adult jokes. If you want kids jokes hire a clown.
Everyone is well aware of the technology stereotypes. If he called all the men <insert stereotype> would Dell have to apologize?
Are you serious?! This was a professional event. There is a known issue with lack of women in tech. Dell specifically has a site dedicated to encouraging women in tech. Women have come out again and again and said that these sorts of jokes are offensive and put other women off going into tech jobs. Why would anyone in their right mind deliberately go out of their way to make women uncomfortable?
> If he called all the men <insert stereotype> would Dell have to apologize?
No, because men aren't oppressed in our society and especially our industry.
Saying stuff that contributes to an oppressive environment isn't okay, even if you package it as a joke.
If you don't understand what I just said: congratulations, you're probably pretty privileged.
"Men aren't oppressed in our society..." how did you arrive at this conclusion?
Majority of homeless: men
Majority of crime victims: men
Majority of workplace fatalities: men
Majority of prisoners: men
Jokes have been historically used by oppressed people to express their frustrations. Not saying it's the same thing here, but trying to ban humor, even if it is politically incorrect, is really not OK.
The world would be a much better place if we smiled more.
would every fucking body stop linking to lighten up. it's just as condescending to link to it every fucking time.
1. Adult jokes are fine in a stand up comedy, not everywhere. 2. He targeted only women, if he made jokes targeted at both men and women equally, then this situation may be different.
That said, there are enough places where sexist jokes are made at men - by both men and women. Nobody complains and nobody cares. That is just the way it is :(
Adult jokes are fine with adults. I don't get why do you want some sterile "professionalism". We are humans, at work or at home. Should we put wigs on to look even more professional? And jokes about some gender stereotype are not necessarily sexist. I, for one, welcome the world where nobody complains about jokes. It scary to think that we are coming closer and closer to Orvelian "thought crime" :(
> It scary to think that we are coming closer and closer to Orvelian "thought crime" :(
Oh for fuck's sake, it's not thought when words are uttered out loud. It's also not crime when free people freely protested the free speech of a free individual who has not been punished by any government.
Godwin's Law should be updated to include Orwell's fictions because nobody seems to have a sense of perspective about them.
> I, for one, welcome the world where nobody complains about jokes.
And I would welcome a world where everyone thinks for two seconds about what it's like to be a constant target of said jokes, uses their basic human empathy to listen to said complaints, and then reasons about it for a while instead of defensively dismissing the complaints with a privileged wave of the hand.
Thank you, seriously. The slippery slope argument is just so infuriating when really all that's necessary is a little human decency.
My rage trigger is:
1) person A, using free speech, espouses some (typically ill-conceived) idea
2) person B, using free speech, criticizes said idea
3) person A compares person B to Adolf Mao Orwell scuffing their jackboots on free speech.
Nope, this is not about thought crime. I could have the filthiest, dirtiest thoughts - nobody will complain about that. Problem starts, when I give words to those thoughts.
For example, imagine a fat person (or a short person, or a ugly person, bald person etc) - is it okay to make fun of his/her fatness, shortness etc, all day long? how would that person feel?
This has nothing to do with "professionalism". It is about just being as much nice to fellow humans as possible.
And according to the article, this Christensen guy is supposed to be "motivational speaker" - what kind of motivation, I can't understand.
The worst thing out of this episode is this - there are lots of nice men in the IT industry, who genuinely want more women in the industry. They'd like to help, and do everything they can to make IT more appealing to women - then routinely, a couple of times a month, these incidents occur - and it gives the entire IT industry a bad name, undoing all the good work done by others.
This didn't sound like an inclusive equal-opportunity roast, which could have been funny. If it had been, he would have been making fun of men in tech as well. As it stands, it seems like he was only making fun of the (few) women present, singling them out for ridicule.
If they had hired a comedian who singled out men in tech as neckbeard virgin nerds, and played on stereotypes, I think it would be almost as unacceptable. "Unacceptable" because it's an obnoxious stereotype, "almost" because men are still the majority/power group in tech and can take it more easily than the outnumbered female minority.