I guess IE’s reputation was also shaded by the reputation of Microsoft. The Microsoft back in the 90s and early 00s was IMHO, not a very nice company. But how they have evolved! For someone starting out with Linux in the 90s I could never dream of Microsoft being a part of the open source ecosystem. In my book, Satya Nadella has been a very good steward of his company.
I'de disagree with that statement as some of their moves (such as purchasing GitHub) could be equally viewed as part of their typical EEE strategy that permeated the entire business.
WSL could also be, and indeed is by many, viewed the same way ("Microsoft is just trying to pseudo-own the linux ecosystem by embedding it within Windows").
Personally, seeing how EEE permeated the entire business in the infamous 90's & 00's era Microsoft and all of the dirty laundry that ended up being aired, I don't doubt for a second that the current-era Microsoft is just as bad, but better at hiding it.
I'll disagree with your disagreement. They carry with them the reputation from the 00s, which most of us seem to be incapable of letting go of. There a fundamental assumption being made here that they are incapable of change.
To me their actions speak louder than slogans and have proven themselves good citizens in many areas. Scrutiny is good. They should constantly be scrutinized.
Yet we have Google and Apple who regularly escape the same scrutiny that they ought to be getting, and instead are given a free pass for more nefarious actions than ms have committed.
If we're going to take a stance if distrust, it needs to be extended to everyone. Otherwise it's just politics and brand loyalty.
They haven't done jack shit for open source. Buying Github doesn't mean anything.
They also haven't done jack shit for open platforms either.
They can't ship working cross-platform software that matters to save their lives. (VSCode doesn't matter. There are a million other text editors)
Things that DO matter, that they have locked into their ecosystem are things like Office or Teams.
Teams is based on electron, and they still fucked up the cross-platform capabilities. Teams on Linux is absolute ass.
Why not port Office to Linux? I thought Microsoft <3 Linux. They don't. They haven't changed.
They lose a ton of devs to Linux and Mac, since doing any kind of dev work is a pain.
Their solution? Ship an entire Linux OS (WSL2) alongside their own OS, since their dev tools are dogshit. They didn't do this out of goodwill, they are trying to stop the bleeding.
So please tell me, in the last 20 years, is there really anything microsoft has _actually_ done to foster any kind of goodwill from Linux people?
I agree with you except for this. Microsoft has, since the '90s, always had top-tier dev tools. They're a different ecosystem than unixy development, and hence incompatible and unfamiliar with a different user experience. Linux's dominance in the server environment has caused it to gather developer mindshare in the last 20 years and so there are many developers who prefer the Linux tooling ecosystem. And yes, Microsoft is trying to (and succeeding at) keep them in Windows with WSL. I expect to see them use the 'extend' playbook to trap them on the platform (if they haven't already, I'm not following very closely).
They just cultivated the same howling mob of die-hard fans to shield themselves from valid criticism. Its way cheaper to run a hype-cult then produce good products or perform a clean up after a PR-Disaster.
Meanwhile they absurdly managed to make people beg for technological innovations fromt he main group at fault for technologic stagnation aka huge undefeatable monpolies.
To be emotional towards a company, means to become a p3wn.
The grandparent comment said that Google and Apple had done much more nefarious than Microsoft. Microsoft who funded SCOs baseless lawsuit to completely destroy Linux.
If you can think of "more evil" things that Google and Apple have done then I'm all ears!
Comments
I guess IE’s reputation was also shaded by the reputation of Microsoft. The Microsoft back in the 90s and early 00s was IMHO, not a very nice company. But how they have evolved! For someone starting out with Linux in the 90s I could never dream of Microsoft being a part of the open source ecosystem. In my book, Satya Nadella has been a very good steward of his company.
I'de disagree with that statement as some of their moves (such as purchasing GitHub) could be equally viewed as part of their typical EEE strategy that permeated the entire business.
WSL could also be, and indeed is by many, viewed the same way ("Microsoft is just trying to pseudo-own the linux ecosystem by embedding it within Windows").
Personally, seeing how EEE permeated the entire business in the infamous 90's & 00's era Microsoft and all of the dirty laundry that ended up being aired, I don't doubt for a second that the current-era Microsoft is just as bad, but better at hiding it.
Apples don't fall far from the tree.
Fool me once...
I'll disagree with your disagreement. They carry with them the reputation from the 00s, which most of us seem to be incapable of letting go of. There a fundamental assumption being made here that they are incapable of change.
To me their actions speak louder than slogans and have proven themselves good citizens in many areas. Scrutiny is good. They should constantly be scrutinized.
Yet we have Google and Apple who regularly escape the same scrutiny that they ought to be getting, and instead are given a free pass for more nefarious actions than ms have committed.
If we're going to take a stance if distrust, it needs to be extended to everyone. Otherwise it's just politics and brand loyalty.
Okay, but they still haven't changed.
They haven't done jack shit for open source. Buying Github doesn't mean anything.
They also haven't done jack shit for open platforms either.
They can't ship working cross-platform software that matters to save their lives. (VSCode doesn't matter. There are a million other text editors)
Things that DO matter, that they have locked into their ecosystem are things like Office or Teams.
Teams is based on electron, and they still fucked up the cross-platform capabilities. Teams on Linux is absolute ass.
Why not port Office to Linux? I thought Microsoft <3 Linux. They don't. They haven't changed.
They lose a ton of devs to Linux and Mac, since doing any kind of dev work is a pain.
Their solution? Ship an entire Linux OS (WSL2) alongside their own OS, since their dev tools are dogshit. They didn't do this out of goodwill, they are trying to stop the bleeding.
So please tell me, in the last 20 years, is there really anything microsoft has _actually_ done to foster any kind of goodwill from Linux people?
I agree with you except for this. Microsoft has, since the '90s, always had top-tier dev tools. They're a different ecosystem than unixy development, and hence incompatible and unfamiliar with a different user experience. Linux's dominance in the server environment has caused it to gather developer mindshare in the last 20 years and so there are many developers who prefer the Linux tooling ecosystem. And yes, Microsoft is trying to (and succeeding at) keep them in Windows with WSL. I expect to see them use the 'extend' playbook to trap them on the platform (if they haven't already, I'm not following very closely).
They just cultivated the same howling mob of die-hard fans to shield themselves from valid criticism. Its way cheaper to run a hype-cult then produce good products or perform a clean up after a PR-Disaster.
Meanwhile they absurdly managed to make people beg for technological innovations fromt he main group at fault for technologic stagnation aka huge undefeatable monpolies.
To be emotional towards a company, means to become a p3wn.
Not to defend Apple or Google, as they are both toxic companies, but Microsoft literally supported SCO.
How is SCO relevant in 2023? That company has been dead for two decades.
Hands up if you've ever heard of Xenix!!
SCO isn't relevant as a company.
The grandparent comment said that Google and Apple had done much more nefarious than Microsoft. Microsoft who funded SCOs baseless lawsuit to completely destroy Linux.
If you can think of "more evil" things that Google and Apple have done then I'm all ears!
Personally, I preferred the Microsoft of the 90s and 00s who were concerned about getting my money at the cash register.
These days, Microsoft are concerned about getting my money at my god damn desk every second of the god damn day.
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