The article certainly has a point, but OTOH the goal of a suicide prevention hotline is to, well, prevent suicides. If someone is close to commiting suicide out of their own free will, calls the hotline, but is obviously still unstable, maybe it is justified to detain them until they are no longer in danger? And of course the operators of the hotline will be cagey about admitting they may track users, out of fear that knowing about this might prevent people from calling the hotline and getting help.
All this story and your conclusion underlines for me is what I already knew: Never ever tell the system that you have a problem. Working on fixing it yourself always has less fallout then whatever the system might be thinking is best for you. Just dont trust em, they will detain you forever and take away your individual rights.
In the end it's a philosophical question: if you value individual freedom above all else, why even have a suicide prevention hotline? If you can agree that preventing suicides should be something society (sounds better than "the system") wants, and you create a suicide prevention hotline, how far should they be allowed to go to prevent suicides? The people working there will of course want to help people, and may even be made liable if they don't do everything in their power to help someone once they know of their situation. Or at the very least, limiting what they are allowed to do to help someone will lead to burn-out: imagine how traumatizing it is to know that someone you talked to then went through with their suicide because you weren't allowed to track their phone?
Again, that is why I wrote it is best to never trust the system with topics like that. Because they will detain you, and explain why that was necessary to prevent trauma of the phone staff, or whatever they will think of to explain their actions. BTW, trauma is only a result of clinging. If you know deep down that it is a personal decision and some circumstances can really be harsh, you shouldn't have a problem accepting someones decision to end their life. It is only a problem for you if you think you are special and need to meddle with other peoples lifes, also know as bigotry.
It’s not philosophical at all. It’s the boring practical reality that letting the government into your personal life is likely to completely screw said life over.
Don’t ring the hotline, go to a priest. He will listen, offer some guidance that may help, and won’t put you in a system from which you may never escape. People need someone they can talk to knowing that they are still in some control of the outcome. Or they just won’t call.
And that is typical of the state. Avoid trusting the government, it's not on your side.
Not particularly. It's typical of any organization where the people in charge don't have a sufficient understanding of the people and the problem area, and try to make up for that by focusing on easy metrics and CYA. The causes for that can be as diverse as simple incompetence to arrogance.
Also, it's probably time to amend the standard language about this hotline when suicide comes up to use a burner phone at a place away from your home.
Comments
The article certainly has a point, but OTOH the goal of a suicide prevention hotline is to, well, prevent suicides. If someone is close to commiting suicide out of their own free will, calls the hotline, but is obviously still unstable, maybe it is justified to detain them until they are no longer in danger? And of course the operators of the hotline will be cagey about admitting they may track users, out of fear that knowing about this might prevent people from calling the hotline and getting help.
All this story and your conclusion underlines for me is what I already knew: Never ever tell the system that you have a problem. Working on fixing it yourself always has less fallout then whatever the system might be thinking is best for you. Just dont trust em, they will detain you forever and take away your individual rights.
In the end it's a philosophical question: if you value individual freedom above all else, why even have a suicide prevention hotline? If you can agree that preventing suicides should be something society (sounds better than "the system") wants, and you create a suicide prevention hotline, how far should they be allowed to go to prevent suicides? The people working there will of course want to help people, and may even be made liable if they don't do everything in their power to help someone once they know of their situation. Or at the very least, limiting what they are allowed to do to help someone will lead to burn-out: imagine how traumatizing it is to know that someone you talked to then went through with their suicide because you weren't allowed to track their phone?
Again, that is why I wrote it is best to never trust the system with topics like that. Because they will detain you, and explain why that was necessary to prevent trauma of the phone staff, or whatever they will think of to explain their actions. BTW, trauma is only a result of clinging. If you know deep down that it is a personal decision and some circumstances can really be harsh, you shouldn't have a problem accepting someones decision to end their life. It is only a problem for you if you think you are special and need to meddle with other peoples lifes, also know as bigotry.
It’s not philosophical at all. It’s the boring practical reality that letting the government into your personal life is likely to completely screw said life over.
Don’t ring the hotline, go to a priest. He will listen, offer some guidance that may help, and won’t put you in a system from which you may never escape. People need someone they can talk to knowing that they are still in some control of the outcome. Or they just won’t call.
But if you try to accomplish that by violating people's trust, all you've done is become untrustworthy.
And that is typical of the state. Avoid trusting the government, it's not on your side.
Not particularly. It's typical of any organization where the people in charge don't have a sufficient understanding of the people and the problem area, and try to make up for that by focusing on easy metrics and CYA. The causes for that can be as diverse as simple incompetence to arrogance.
Also, it's probably time to amend the standard language about this hotline when suicide comes up to use a burner phone at a place away from your home.
It's because the state has the power of force over you, which makes it especially more dangerous than others who don't.