I suspect one of the hidden benefits of recommendations to buy a different (ergonomic) keyboard is that simply having a new keyboard means it's probably cleaner than the one you've been using. Makes me wish someone would do a study involving three options:
1. New, clean keyboard same as the old keyboard in terms of layout.
2. New, clean ergonomic keyboard.
3. Just religiously and thoroughly cleaning your keyboard.
It would be interesting if we could quantify how much the recommendation for a new keyboard was beneficial simply because it's clean. (Though I guess you would also need to rate the filth level of old keyboards to get more meaningful data.)
A few weeks of consistent resistance training with bodyweight exercises has worked like magic for me after years of chronic wrist pain. I’ve been gradually working my way into this routine: https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/wiki/kb/recommend...
Pull ups/chin ups, ring rows, and push ups (or their easier/harder variations) all seem to help a lot, though I suspect the pull ups and chin ups are having the most impact.
I personally find it a lot more fun and easier to motivate myself to do these kinds of exercises compared to weightlifting, but I’m sure that works too.
Sample size of one and all that, but weightlifting is the only thing that helped my RSI. I've tried everything: Kinesis keyboards, trackballs, ergonomic mice, etc. Nothing worked. I couldn't sleep properly some nights due to constant pain. I took up weightlifting, and my RSI was gone within a month. And back pain was gone as well.
What's frustrating is that _not a single doctor_ suggested physical exercise. Some prescribed expensive PT. Some prescribed some stupid hand stretching exercises which only seemed to make things worse. One prescribed massage (nope, doesn't help with RSI).
Ever since then I'm pretty convinced that most musculoskeletal and tendon chronic ailments are due to either the lack of muscle development (especially in the back and legs/knees) or due to unbalanced muscle development.
My ex lifted weights and also spent a lot of time at a computer. He began having pain when he stopped lifting for a time. He saw a doctor and the conclusion was that he was in pain because he hadn't been lifting. He resumed lifting and it went away.
But, yeah, generally speaking, I'm pretty frustrated with how common it is for doctors to not tell patients about simple fixes that don't involve drugs or surgeries. Sometimes you get generic handouts with information about, for example, how cleaning can serve as a first line of defense with allergies and respiratory problems, but we don't really promote such approaches in earnest. Interventions that don't involve drugs or surgery are often treated like they don't really count in some sense.
Allergies are frustrating as well. Before I moved to the US I had no allergies at all. I grew up in a place where ragweed grows dense and 6 feet tall. There are plenty of allergens there, and yet I was fine. Like with my RSI I went to the doctors, they did tests, prescribed medications, and my life still kind of sucked for a good chunk of the year. And then I bought a house and started gardening with my bare hands (giving my immune system better things to worry about), and things are much easier now, allergy-wise, though still not ideal. And yet, no doctor in the US will prescribe that you expose yourself to dirt and germs from time to time.
So, you can find zero studies at all investigating the relationship between RSI and keyboard cleanliness, but you will actively shoot down anecdotal evidence even though you have no harder evidence with which to rebut it and the one pertinent article you can find is an extreme example supporting my opinion that some keyboards are shockingly disgusting.
It was years ago, so I don't recall. Possibly daily with peroxide.
Though I intend for this to be my last reply to the endless stream of dismissive bullshit regarding the suggestion to clean your keyboard.
There are multiple other comments in this discussion also saying, in essence, "anecdotally, X helped me." None of them are getting the ridiculous levels of pushback this is getting.
"Clean your keyboard" (if you are in so much pain that you are desperate for solutions and will try random shit you tripped across on the internet) is such an innocuous suggestion that I find it impossible to see the replies here as anything other than a giant pile of sexist bullshit on multiple levels.
It's not like I'm suggesting people douse themselves in gasoline and light themselves on fire or spend zillions of dollars. Geez.
Comments
Some things that may help:
1. Clean your keyboard and mouse.
2. Feed your tendons.
3. Resistance training, such as weightlifting.
I suspect one of the hidden benefits of recommendations to buy a different (ergonomic) keyboard is that simply having a new keyboard means it's probably cleaner than the one you've been using. Makes me wish someone would do a study involving three options:
1. New, clean keyboard same as the old keyboard in terms of layout.
2. New, clean ergonomic keyboard.
3. Just religiously and thoroughly cleaning your keyboard.
It would be interesting if we could quantify how much the recommendation for a new keyboard was beneficial simply because it's clean. (Though I guess you would also need to rate the filth level of old keyboards to get more meaningful data.)
“Resistance training, such as weightlifting.”
A few weeks of consistent resistance training with bodyweight exercises has worked like magic for me after years of chronic wrist pain. I’ve been gradually working my way into this routine: https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/wiki/kb/recommend...
Pull ups/chin ups, ring rows, and push ups (or their easier/harder variations) all seem to help a lot, though I suspect the pull ups and chin ups are having the most impact.
I personally find it a lot more fun and easier to motivate myself to do these kinds of exercises compared to weightlifting, but I’m sure that works too.
Sample size of one and all that, but weightlifting is the only thing that helped my RSI. I've tried everything: Kinesis keyboards, trackballs, ergonomic mice, etc. Nothing worked. I couldn't sleep properly some nights due to constant pain. I took up weightlifting, and my RSI was gone within a month. And back pain was gone as well.
What's frustrating is that _not a single doctor_ suggested physical exercise. Some prescribed expensive PT. Some prescribed some stupid hand stretching exercises which only seemed to make things worse. One prescribed massage (nope, doesn't help with RSI).
Ever since then I'm pretty convinced that most musculoskeletal and tendon chronic ailments are due to either the lack of muscle development (especially in the back and legs/knees) or due to unbalanced muscle development.
My ex lifted weights and also spent a lot of time at a computer. He began having pain when he stopped lifting for a time. He saw a doctor and the conclusion was that he was in pain because he hadn't been lifting. He resumed lifting and it went away.
But, yeah, generally speaking, I'm pretty frustrated with how common it is for doctors to not tell patients about simple fixes that don't involve drugs or surgeries. Sometimes you get generic handouts with information about, for example, how cleaning can serve as a first line of defense with allergies and respiratory problems, but we don't really promote such approaches in earnest. Interventions that don't involve drugs or surgery are often treated like they don't really count in some sense.
Allergies are frustrating as well. Before I moved to the US I had no allergies at all. I grew up in a place where ragweed grows dense and 6 feet tall. There are plenty of allergens there, and yet I was fine. Like with my RSI I went to the doctors, they did tests, prescribed medications, and my life still kind of sucked for a good chunk of the year. And then I bought a house and started gardening with my bare hands (giving my immune system better things to worry about), and things are much easier now, allergy-wise, though still not ideal. And yet, no doctor in the US will prescribe that you expose yourself to dirt and germs from time to time.
Just curious, what's your hypothesis for correlation between kb cleanliness rsi? I don't really see a mechanical relationship there.
Sub clinical infection.
Why would keyboard cleanliness matter more than everything else in the environment?
This dirty keyboard theory seems entirely implausible to me. Do you have any evidence supporting it? Or is it purely speculative/anecdotal?
A search of the academic literature for «"subclinical infection" "repetitive strain injury"» turns up zero results.
Why would keyboard cleanliness matter more than everything else in the environment?
On the one hand:
It doesn't and I didn't say it did. I only suggested it might be helpful for some people.
On the other hand:
Your hands come into regular contact with the keyboard, sometimes for many hours a day. Some keyboards are shockingly disgusting.
I inherited a shockingly disgusting keyboard at my corporate job. My tendon issues got worse. I began cleaning it regularly. It helped.
You can call it anecdotal if you wish.
If you are e.g. typing in an operating room, wearing gloves contaminated with MRSA, I would recommend regularly sterilizing your keyboard, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S019567010...
It would also would be a good idea to regularly clean keyboards on public computers, e.g. at libraries.
But not because of concerns about RSI...
* * *
Edit: “I cleaned my keyboard and my joint pain seemed subjectively better” is a good example of anecdotal evidence; no need to italicize anecdotal.
Edit 2: I removed my comments below, because this whole conversation is off topic and unproductive.
So, you can find zero studies at all investigating the relationship between RSI and keyboard cleanliness, but you will actively shoot down anecdotal evidence even though you have no harder evidence with which to rebut it and the one pertinent article you can find is an extreme example supporting my opinion that some keyboards are shockingly disgusting.
.
This is written there:
But not because of concerns about RSI...
Please explain to me how I should interpret that if it isn't a dismissal of the idea.
.
How often?
Interesting possibility: Perhaps that provided just enough exercise for your hands, as suggested by others.
It was years ago, so I don't recall. Possibly daily with peroxide.
Though I intend for this to be my last reply to the endless stream of dismissive bullshit regarding the suggestion to clean your keyboard.
There are multiple other comments in this discussion also saying, in essence, "anecdotally, X helped me." None of them are getting the ridiculous levels of pushback this is getting.
"Clean your keyboard" (if you are in so much pain that you are desperate for solutions and will try random shit you tripped across on the internet) is such an innocuous suggestion that I find it impossible to see the replies here as anything other than a giant pile of sexist bullshit on multiple levels.
It's not like I'm suggesting people douse themselves in gasoline and light themselves on fire or spend zillions of dollars. Geez.