but it sounds a bit like he thinks that was a mistake:
I do and it's something I'm still working on. I don't have any illusions about being anything other than deeply imperfect. Any progress I've made so far is due to good people who were patient with me.
Much of the hostility people are seeing in my post history is frustration with the industry - not that that excuses anything. Being nice is necessary, but not sufficient, for having a productive conversation. I once contested that with pg but now think he was absolutely right about it.
Another pattern that is a problem is failing to soften delivery or being responsive. It doesn't matter if you're right or not if you're flatly reiterating your stance on something - people won't believe you anyway. It can also make sentiments seem more hostile than they are intended or need to be. I've seen this in myself and others.
I started teaching Haskell because I knew I wouldn't be able to use Haskell unless I could teach coworkers efficiently and effectively. It changed from there into a more general dissatisfaction with what learning Haskell was like for many (most?) people. I talked about this some at Lambda Conf this weekend.
I make no excuses. I'm still working on it. I've had a standing offer to make amends with people I've wronged for awhile now and that stands. Some people I've been able to catch up with, many are still out there.
I like to believe (internal narrative, no idea if it's true) that the book has harnessed my impatience into something useful.
I'd rather write a MonoHaskell compiler with an LLVM backend using Stephen Diehl's material[1] and make it something real that people can hack on and play with.
The people that held the anti-FTP position (Augustsson, others) reportedly found the site funny at the time. I was prepared to take it down if they'd been upset, but they weren't. I heard good arguments against the proposal (particularly from Cale), but nothing compelling enough to justify increasing the already disconcerting distance between commercial Haskell practices and what beginners are shown in the Prelude.
Comments
I have the same impression, which slightly tempers my curiousity about this book, but it sounds a bit like he thinks that was a mistake: https://twitter.com/bitemyapp/status/602716056285679616.
Also, not precisely the same question, but related and encouraging: https://github.com/bitemyapp/learnhaskell/blob/master/coc.md.
I do and it's something I'm still working on. I don't have any illusions about being anything other than deeply imperfect. Any progress I've made so far is due to good people who were patient with me.
Much of the hostility people are seeing in my post history is frustration with the industry - not that that excuses anything. Being nice is necessary, but not sufficient, for having a productive conversation. I once contested that with pg but now think he was absolutely right about it.
Another pattern that is a problem is failing to soften delivery or being responsive. It doesn't matter if you're right or not if you're flatly reiterating your stance on something - people won't believe you anyway. It can also make sentiments seem more hostile than they are intended or need to be. I've seen this in myself and others.
I started teaching Haskell because I knew I wouldn't be able to use Haskell unless I could teach coworkers efficiently and effectively. It changed from there into a more general dissatisfaction with what learning Haskell was like for many (most?) people. I talked about this some at Lambda Conf this weekend.
I make no excuses. I'm still working on it. I've had a standing offer to make amends with people I've wronged for awhile now and that stands. Some people I've been able to catch up with, many are still out there.
I like to believe (internal narrative, no idea if it's true) that the book has harnessed my impatience into something useful.
Does that mean you're going to take down http://www.monohaskell.com ?
I'd rather write a MonoHaskell compiler with an LLVM backend using Stephen Diehl's material[1] and make it something real that people can hack on and play with.
http://dev.stephendiehl.com/fun/
The people that held the anti-FTP position (Augustsson, others) reportedly found the site funny at the time. I was prepared to take it down if they'd been upset, but they weren't. I heard good arguments against the proposal (particularly from Cale), but nothing compelling enough to justify increasing the already disconcerting distance between commercial Haskell practices and what beginners are shown in the Prelude.
Glad to hear that. I think a lot of us are in the boat of struggling with our critical side.
Then stop attacking people and get used to the idea that you might be wrong on certain things pertaining to FP.