German companies are totally backwards compared to US companies and usually managed in rather totalitarian ways.
This might work for someone who does not mind this or who has a place to stay while earning less than 1k USD a month for years, but it certainly did not work for me and I choose min wage jobs and self learning instead. Self learners are considered unemployable in Germany, but it gets one a fair chance in the UK or Ireland.
Backwards in terms of largely using outdated technologies, requiring you to send a printed CV with your picture (slowly changing now), very formal hiring process, unwilling to hire anyone without a matching degree rand certifications regardless of skills, largely unrealistic expectations regarding work experience and skills (requirering 5 years of iPhone dev experience when it was just out for a year was common), in larger companies a PhD is needed to get promoted above certain positions etc. etc.
Europe truely is the "old world", with London being the only place where startups have a somewhat realistic chance of getting funded on reasonable terms, however entry level developer salaries are still poverty level in London for the first 3 years or so, as there are more candidates than jobs, unlike in the US.
Last I checked, entry level salaries for a graduate were about £30k. For a non-grad that would drop to around £20k, which is still more than all the debt you have to take on to go to university.
20k is barely liveable in London and if you get laid off before you make significantly more, then you'll have a serious problem if you don't qualify for welfare yet. 30k is already on the high end. In SF, which has similar rents, entry level devs mostly make 70-80k USD, with 60k being rock bottom.
There are no "entry level" devs in SF. Either you're hired at a big firm/company (google/twitter/facebook) and you start off in the 150-200k/year range or you have experience.
All the entry jobs are filled by H1b, and most the non entry jobs as well.
Worked as a consultant/contractor in the Bay Area for ~3 years and GTFO. I made over 100 but less than 150 with 15 years experience.
But it's plenty liveable elsewhere in the UK, and there are plenty of descent tech companies looking for devs. And the point is, that's money you're earning, not money your borrowing as a student.
Comments
German companies are totally backwards compared to US companies and usually managed in rather totalitarian ways.
This might work for someone who does not mind this or who has a place to stay while earning less than 1k USD a month for years, but it certainly did not work for me and I choose min wage jobs and self learning instead. Self learners are considered unemployable in Germany, but it gets one a fair chance in the UK or Ireland.
Can you give some specifics?
Backwards in terms of largely using outdated technologies, requiring you to send a printed CV with your picture (slowly changing now), very formal hiring process, unwilling to hire anyone without a matching degree rand certifications regardless of skills, largely unrealistic expectations regarding work experience and skills (requirering 5 years of iPhone dev experience when it was just out for a year was common), in larger companies a PhD is needed to get promoted above certain positions etc. etc.
Europe truely is the "old world", with London being the only place where startups have a somewhat realistic chance of getting funded on reasonable terms, however entry level developer salaries are still poverty level in London for the first 3 years or so, as there are more candidates than jobs, unlike in the US.
Last I checked, entry level salaries for a graduate were about £30k. For a non-grad that would drop to around £20k, which is still more than all the debt you have to take on to go to university.
20k is barely liveable in London and if you get laid off before you make significantly more, then you'll have a serious problem if you don't qualify for welfare yet. 30k is already on the high end. In SF, which has similar rents, entry level devs mostly make 70-80k USD, with 60k being rock bottom.
There are no "entry level" devs in SF. Either you're hired at a big firm/company (google/twitter/facebook) and you start off in the 150-200k/year range or you have experience.
All the entry jobs are filled by H1b, and most the non entry jobs as well.
Worked as a consultant/contractor in the Bay Area for ~3 years and GTFO. I made over 100 but less than 150 with 15 years experience.
But it's plenty liveable elsewhere in the UK, and there are plenty of descent tech companies looking for devs. And the point is, that's money you're earning, not money your borrowing as a student.
30k is at the top of the range once you exclude finance jobs...
£50k average for london developers and I have seen jobs at well over £35k for groundwork team leaders - thatsthe gang boss of a bunch of navvy's
I interpreted that to mean the top end of entry level
50K was the average sallary for developers in london btw the median for the UK is 23 or 24 K.
And standard java dev work seem to start about 50k or thats what the Guardian was offering
Carfull now I got voated down for mentioning the race and sex descrimination aspects ;-)