XL. Women forthwith from the age of fourteen are called by the men mistresses (dominae). Therefore since they see that there is nothing else that they can obtain, but only the power of lying with men, they begin to decorate themselves, and to place all their hopes in this. It is worth our while then to take care that they may know that they are valued (by men) for nothing else than appearing (being) decent and modest and discreet.
When I first heard this, I took it as something along the lines of:
"Men have a low opinion of women, and women perceive this, and see no path to achievement in their own right, bound as they are by the perception of their gender, so they remit and play the game, decorating themselves and seek achievement by association with a man (e.g. any number of political wives, often from more successful families than their husbands). We would be better to advise them to reject this line of thinking." I took it as implicit that women who chose the "descent and modest and discreet" path would then preserve a (subversive) path to achievement.
Not exactly a progressive feminist view, in the modern context, but I imagine consistent with what he would tell his own daughter. The Stoics would have been aware of notable female leaders and thus would consider themselves foolish if they did not admit that a women could be equal if not superior to men within any given group, in terms of intrinsic reasoning capacity.
Yeah, the text could benefit from a brief introduction. Epictetus lived in the first century AD and career options for women were limited, to say the least.
Comments
ok... uh... It was a different time?
XL. Women forthwith from the age of fourteen are called by the men mistresses (dominae). Therefore since they see that there is nothing else that they can obtain, but only the power of lying with men, they begin to decorate themselves, and to place all their hopes in this. It is worth our while then to take care that they may know that they are valued (by men) for nothing else than appearing (being) decent and modest and discreet.
When I first heard this, I took it as something along the lines of:
"Men have a low opinion of women, and women perceive this, and see no path to achievement in their own right, bound as they are by the perception of their gender, so they remit and play the game, decorating themselves and seek achievement by association with a man (e.g. any number of political wives, often from more successful families than their husbands). We would be better to advise them to reject this line of thinking." I took it as implicit that women who chose the "descent and modest and discreet" path would then preserve a (subversive) path to achievement.
Not exactly a progressive feminist view, in the modern context, but I imagine consistent with what he would tell his own daughter. The Stoics would have been aware of notable female leaders and thus would consider themselves foolish if they did not admit that a women could be equal if not superior to men within any given group, in terms of intrinsic reasoning capacity.
Yeah, the text could benefit from a brief introduction. Epictetus lived in the first century AD and career options for women were limited, to say the least.
Are you saying you have not observed this is in our age, or even in OECD countries? Or are you objecting to the absolutism of the quote?