Yeah. Or work remotely from places that respect the sublime power of silence, like certain public libraries, especially academic libraries.
I think my love of silence is a big part of the whole foundation for my political and spiritual leanings. I loathe capitalism because it's noisy in all kinds of ways. And zazen, that speaks for itself.
I know many Zen practitioners from Finland. They're all so lovely; I lack words. The whole aesthetic of Zen: lightning on a black sky; the moonshine reflecting in the lake; the far-off bird cry... It's all Finland.
Compare all this to the typical open office. Why do we accept such painful environments? How can some people be so comfortable in full-time office jobs? It chafes on me like a hairshirt.
I've been living in Bay Area for the past couple of years, and every time I go back home (Helsinki, Finland), first thing I notice how quiet it is.
Even in the middle of the city, with people hustling around, its not noisy. Somehow the city streets, cars and people are quieter.
Same with restaurants, you can actually have an conversation even with a larger table without yelling since everyone in the restaurant talks with a respectful volume.
And you can live in a downtown apartment and hear absolutely no street noise during the day or night.
The quiet times or less noisy places is one of the things I miss. In Bay Area you really need to look for it, to find a place with quietness which is usually far away from highways, roads and apparently people.
Or work remotely from places that respect the sublime power of silence, like certain public libraries, especially academic libraries
True. I have been really trying to find a job that allows me to work remotely. I have an amazing setup at home, more like a sacred space but no job to use it for.
I know many Zen practitioners from Finland.
How's the immigration of Finland? I might just move there.
Why do we accept such painful environments?
Some of us really do not have a choice.
How can some people be so comfortable in full-time office jobs?
Human beings do get used to and adjust in a new environment but I have seen the irritation in my colleagues and I know what's up with them. I believe it is the same thing as I have, just no private space which is crucial.
Example: Someone at work lost their close family and we assume that it's all hunky-dory after we have offered condolences. But again, some of us just do not have a choice.
How's the immigration of Finland? I might just move there.
The language would be the hardest part, and by that I mean really hard. Finno-Ugric languages (Finnish, Estonian, weirdly, also Hungarian) are, in my opinion, the most difficult languages in Europe.
Sometimes I wonder if that influences how people can handle commotion. I grew up with three little sisters close in age and between them and my mom literally nothing outside of that even registers as a blip on my radar.
I also find that in very quiet environments I can get restless - all anecdotal, but made me wonder about it.
Yeah, my older brother is also quite "sensitive." We had to take the first bus out of Vienna because he couldn't handle it; it made him nauseous. There was a lot of quiet in our household, and we're both moderately introverted.
I loathe capitalism because it's noisy in all kinds of ways.
If communism is less noisy, it's because the state has forcibly silenced people. You can't hear them because they have a gun to their head. Don't forget that.
I have a gun to my head right now, and so do you. Try missing a payment for your phone, rent, or mortgage. If you think capitalist states don't rely on violence and the threat of violence to maintain the social order, you're not thinking clearly.
But "I loathe capitalism" doesn't imply "I advocate communism."
Capitalism and the kind of communism you're talking about are both violent impositions of large and complex legal systems. Why do I need to like either of them?
The world is run by powerful people, and I generally dislike them. It's structured by systems of bureaucratic power, and I dislike those, too.
Libertarians tend to frame capitalism as being equivalent with liberty and freedom, which makes me laugh out loud.
Capitalism and Communism are not the only possible forms of human organization. As a matter of fact, it can be argued that Capitalism and Socialism (the only kind of Communism for which there are historical records, AFAIK) are two competing and closely related patterns that happened to be dominant in the world during the second half of the 20th century.
As a result, I have a hard time believing Communist cities were significantly less noisy. And while the gun to the head probably happened more than a few times, it's probably not relevant to this discussion.
Capitalism and Communism are not the only possible forms of human organization.
What alternatives do you have in mind? Everything listed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_systems#Types looks like either a form of capitalism, of communism/socialism, or a mix of the two. (There are one or two that might be considered distinct, but they look like they are only applicable at a very small scale, and even then they ultimately look pretty similar to capitalism or communism.)
I assume you're not just trying to draw a distinction between communism and socialism, since you're calling socialism a form of communism. You have another comment claiming it's the other way around, but regardless, the point is that they're very closely related.
And while the gun to the head probably happened more than a few times
The gun to the head is a necessary component of any communist/socialist system.
it's probably not relevant to this discussion
The original comment I replied to connected a dislike of capitalism with Zen Buddhism. Buddhists are supposed to care about peace in the world, not just silence for themselves. Communism is anything but peaceful. So it seems very relevant to me.
I think[1] it is a bit disingenuous to claim that every economic system is either capitalism, communism/socialism, or a mix of the two. This is not what I saw at all in the wiki page. Of course all systems have things in common, they belong to the same category after all, but each has its own unique characteristics.
By example, the Guilds system in Renacentist Europe. Is it capitalism or socialism? Each master had control of his own means of production, and hired both journeymen and apprentices to provide labor, but on the other hand, each master had to answer to the guild at large, and more directly to his peers in the same city. They had pretty strict controls over who could do business where, without intervention of the State, so in our eyes may look like a mix of capitalist oligopoly with socialism...
Except this analysis misses the point that the Guilds system was not about the control of the means of production, but about the control of knowledge and social status. Of course you can say that knowledge and social status are means of production, but that would be true only in a very abstract sense.
Regarding the "gun to the head", I insist it is not a defining characteristic of socialism/communism. Capitalism, and feudalism, and traditional economies, etc, all have their own ways to impose the will of high status individuals over the rest of the people, and more often than not this involves the threat of physical violence. That's why I don't think it is relevant.
[1] Disclaimer, my knowledge of economic systems is limited to 101 classes but still.
> Capitalism and Communism are not the only possible forms of human organization.
What alternatives do you have in mind?
A lot of the forms that predate the modern nation-state don't look much like socialism or capitalism because both of those (as well as, arguably, mercantilism, which might be distinguished from capitalism) really presume the kind of environment provided by nation-states as a context.
Capitalism and Communism are not the only possible forms of human organization.
So far so good
As a matter of fact, it can be argued that Capitalism and Socialism (the only kind of Communism for which there are historical records, AFAIK) are two competing and closely related patterns that happened to be dominant in the world during the second half of the 20th century.
Socialism is not a form of Communism, but the reverse. Other forms of Socialism besides Communism are in operational existence now, as well as being well attested in the historical record.
And, while Communism's peak was in the late 20th Century, Capitalisms was in the late 19th Century; by the mid-20th Century the influence of Socialist critiques of capitalism had largely seen it replaced by either non-Communist Socialist systems or mixed systems which blended elements of capitalism with elements of socialism (Communism itself mostly took hold in places where capitalism had never firmly established itself.)
I wonder what is your opinion on the similarities between American Capitalism vs USSR State Socialism during the cold war?
I'd say that a good point was made by Marxists I've known (not of the Leninist/Stalinist persuasion!) who referred to Soviet-style Communism as "State Capitalism" and traced the failure directly back to Leninist vanguardism recreating one of the central problems of capitalism in that it produced a narrow elite class that exercised control of the means of production and ordered society for its own benefit.
I would say that in many ways, during the Cold War, the "capitalist" mixed economies of the West -- even, though less so than some if its European allies, the US -- were more substantively socialist than the USSR and its allise following the same basic structural model.
For some reason I have always associated Zen monasteries with Japan. I've never been there, but judging from shows/movies, the cities there (esp Tokyo) seem pretty noisy, and overstimulating in general. On the other hand, Scandinavia seems very calm and serene (exception - The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo). Anyone who's visited/lived in any of these places, is this an accurate portrayal?
Cities in Scandinavia aren't silent, but at least for me, I register a kind of silence that's somehow in the background. Especially with northerners. As you go south in Sweden, the backdrop of glacier-like serenity fades away and you start to feel the presence of a more European bustle.
Zen is originally from ancient China, where I imagine there was quite a bit of silence. That's not to say the essence of Zen has anything to do with either silence or noise, but I think Zen culture was kind of steeped in rural silence.
* Place where I get an office, quiet room. (Have never achieved this)
I've taken to listening to static/brown noise at work to drown everything out. It's not nearly as relaxing as actual silence but it blocks most extraneous noises and doesn't distract me like music
I have no idea about the static noise! Thanks for mentioning, I need to try that. I found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yb-G7Y9ZR8. Is this what you are talking about?
I usually listen to some classical music. It is less distracting than anything else and is pleasant (depending on what you are listening to).
I second my noise! I've used it quite a lot, and it's very customizable. No idea why SimplyNoise is ontop of search results lately, must be some SEO spamming.
I am the opposite, in that static noise just grates on me. I prefer music, but I need it to be familiar (new music is just distracting). I prefer music that I have heard a hundred times, which could be classical music, but could also be Black Sabbath or Dave Brubeck.
I can't stand it if it's got the really high pitched tones in it, but what simplynoise has as uh -- I think brown noise? -- reminds me of being at my aunt and uncles house that's on a river. They lived right next to a series of small overflows/dams and it sounds a lot like the water rushing over those.
Yeah; I just tried http://mynoise.net/ and I've used simply noise. SimplyNoise isn't bad but it looks like you can do more with mynoise. I managed to get a curve I really like.
Q: I want to get this for use in the office. I hear everything from birds, keyboarding to footsteps. Earplugs are a pain. Would you recommend a pair?
A: Nope - They are designed to cut out noise at higher levels. Solid earplugs are best to cut out noise from birds, footsteps, keyboards (even loud breathing). With these earmuffs you will likely still hear these "quiet sounds". Now if you are around leaf blowers, lawn tractors, heavy machinery, .50 caliber guns, or the like you will be happy with the comfort level that these muffs provide!
I use these occasionally (after ear plugs started causing problems for my ears). They do a pretty good job in my experience at helping me focus even though they do not perfectly cut out some sounds, everything is muffled enough that it's a peaceful sensation if not total silence.
The bigger issue for me is they really can't be worn more than an hour or so at a time without discomfort.
Basically I wore them for the majority of the hours of the day (during sleep + while working) for over two years without any issues then I had a some pretty major impacted ear wax and started looking into it more. Apparently ear plugs are not really good for you. Which is unfortunate because there is really no substitute.
Comments
You are fortunate if you have a quiet room or dark room at work. Even more if you have an office which reduces noise.
Two of my biggest points when I try to find a job -
* As small a commute as possible and hopefully public transportation availability (have achieved this time and again)
* Place where I get an office, quiet room. (Have never achieved this)
Yeah. Or work remotely from places that respect the sublime power of silence, like certain public libraries, especially academic libraries.
I think my love of silence is a big part of the whole foundation for my political and spiritual leanings. I loathe capitalism because it's noisy in all kinds of ways. And zazen, that speaks for itself.
I know many Zen practitioners from Finland. They're all so lovely; I lack words. The whole aesthetic of Zen: lightning on a black sky; the moonshine reflecting in the lake; the far-off bird cry... It's all Finland.
Compare all this to the typical open office. Why do we accept such painful environments? How can some people be so comfortable in full-time office jobs? It chafes on me like a hairshirt.
I've been living in Bay Area for the past couple of years, and every time I go back home (Helsinki, Finland), first thing I notice how quiet it is.
Even in the middle of the city, with people hustling around, its not noisy. Somehow the city streets, cars and people are quieter.
Same with restaurants, you can actually have an conversation even with a larger table without yelling since everyone in the restaurant talks with a respectful volume.
And you can live in a downtown apartment and hear absolutely no street noise during the day or night.
The quiet times or less noisy places is one of the things I miss. In Bay Area you really need to look for it, to find a place with quietness which is usually far away from highways, roads and apparently people.
In California, you do have access to some pretty spectacular national parks and such, though, I suppose?
True. I have been really trying to find a job that allows me to work remotely. I have an amazing setup at home, more like a sacred space but no job to use it for.
How's the immigration of Finland? I might just move there.
Some of us really do not have a choice.
Human beings do get used to and adjust in a new environment but I have seen the irritation in my colleagues and I know what's up with them. I believe it is the same thing as I have, just no private space which is crucial.
Example: Someone at work lost their close family and we assume that it's all hunky-dory after we have offered condolences. But again, some of us just do not have a choice.
The language would be the hardest part, and by that I mean really hard. Finno-Ugric languages (Finnish, Estonian, weirdly, also Hungarian) are, in my opinion, the most difficult languages in Europe.
Did you have any siblings close in age?
Sometimes I wonder if that influences how people can handle commotion. I grew up with three little sisters close in age and between them and my mom literally nothing outside of that even registers as a blip on my radar.
I also find that in very quiet environments I can get restless - all anecdotal, but made me wonder about it.
Yeah, my older brother is also quite "sensitive." We had to take the first bus out of Vienna because he couldn't handle it; it made him nauseous. There was a lot of quiet in our household, and we're both moderately introverted.
If communism is less noisy, it's because the state has forcibly silenced people. You can't hear them because they have a gun to their head. Don't forget that.
I have a gun to my head right now, and so do you. Try missing a payment for your phone, rent, or mortgage. If you think capitalist states don't rely on violence and the threat of violence to maintain the social order, you're not thinking clearly.
But "I loathe capitalism" doesn't imply "I advocate communism."
Capitalism and the kind of communism you're talking about are both violent impositions of large and complex legal systems. Why do I need to like either of them?
The world is run by powerful people, and I generally dislike them. It's structured by systems of bureaucratic power, and I dislike those, too.
Libertarians tend to frame capitalism as being equivalent with liberty and freedom, which makes me laugh out loud.
If I took on debt, that means I voluntarily agreed to have a gun to my head. Surely you see the difference.
Capitalism and Communism are not the only possible forms of human organization. As a matter of fact, it can be argued that Capitalism and Socialism (the only kind of Communism for which there are historical records, AFAIK) are two competing and closely related patterns that happened to be dominant in the world during the second half of the 20th century.
As a result, I have a hard time believing Communist cities were significantly less noisy. And while the gun to the head probably happened more than a few times, it's probably not relevant to this discussion.
What alternatives do you have in mind? Everything listed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_systems#Types looks like either a form of capitalism, of communism/socialism, or a mix of the two. (There are one or two that might be considered distinct, but they look like they are only applicable at a very small scale, and even then they ultimately look pretty similar to capitalism or communism.)
I assume you're not just trying to draw a distinction between communism and socialism, since you're calling socialism a form of communism. You have another comment claiming it's the other way around, but regardless, the point is that they're very closely related.
The gun to the head is a necessary component of any communist/socialist system.
The original comment I replied to connected a dislike of capitalism with Zen Buddhism. Buddhists are supposed to care about peace in the world, not just silence for themselves. Communism is anything but peaceful. So it seems very relevant to me.
I think[1] it is a bit disingenuous to claim that every economic system is either capitalism, communism/socialism, or a mix of the two. This is not what I saw at all in the wiki page. Of course all systems have things in common, they belong to the same category after all, but each has its own unique characteristics.
By example, the Guilds system in Renacentist Europe. Is it capitalism or socialism? Each master had control of his own means of production, and hired both journeymen and apprentices to provide labor, but on the other hand, each master had to answer to the guild at large, and more directly to his peers in the same city. They had pretty strict controls over who could do business where, without intervention of the State, so in our eyes may look like a mix of capitalist oligopoly with socialism...
Except this analysis misses the point that the Guilds system was not about the control of the means of production, but about the control of knowledge and social status. Of course you can say that knowledge and social status are means of production, but that would be true only in a very abstract sense.
Regarding the "gun to the head", I insist it is not a defining characteristic of socialism/communism. Capitalism, and feudalism, and traditional economies, etc, all have their own ways to impose the will of high status individuals over the rest of the people, and more often than not this involves the threat of physical violence. That's why I don't think it is relevant.
[1] Disclaimer, my knowledge of economic systems is limited to 101 classes but still.
A lot of the forms that predate the modern nation-state don't look much like socialism or capitalism because both of those (as well as, arguably, mercantilism, which might be distinguished from capitalism) really presume the kind of environment provided by nation-states as a context.
Feudalism, for instance.
So far so good
Socialism is not a form of Communism, but the reverse. Other forms of Socialism besides Communism are in operational existence now, as well as being well attested in the historical record.
And, while Communism's peak was in the late 20th Century, Capitalisms was in the late 19th Century; by the mid-20th Century the influence of Socialist critiques of capitalism had largely seen it replaced by either non-Communist Socialist systems or mixed systems which blended elements of capitalism with elements of socialism (Communism itself mostly took hold in places where capitalism had never firmly established itself.)
Ok, I stand corrected. This is not at all what I remember from my highschool/uni_101 classes, but it was 20 years ago.
I wonder what is your opinion on the similarities between American Capitalism vs USSR State Socialism during the cold war?
I'd say that a good point was made by Marxists I've known (not of the Leninist/Stalinist persuasion!) who referred to Soviet-style Communism as "State Capitalism" and traced the failure directly back to Leninist vanguardism recreating one of the central problems of capitalism in that it produced a narrow elite class that exercised control of the means of production and ordered society for its own benefit.
I would say that in many ways, during the Cold War, the "capitalist" mixed economies of the West -- even, though less so than some if its European allies, the US -- were more substantively socialist than the USSR and its allise following the same basic structural model.
For some reason I have always associated Zen monasteries with Japan. I've never been there, but judging from shows/movies, the cities there (esp Tokyo) seem pretty noisy, and overstimulating in general. On the other hand, Scandinavia seems very calm and serene (exception - The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo). Anyone who's visited/lived in any of these places, is this an accurate portrayal?
Cities in Scandinavia aren't silent, but at least for me, I register a kind of silence that's somehow in the background. Especially with northerners. As you go south in Sweden, the backdrop of glacier-like serenity fades away and you start to feel the presence of a more European bustle.
Zen is originally from ancient China, where I imagine there was quite a bit of silence. That's not to say the essence of Zen has anything to do with either silence or noise, but I think Zen culture was kind of steeped in rural silence.
I've taken to listening to static/brown noise at work to drown everything out. It's not nearly as relaxing as actual silence but it blocks most extraneous noises and doesn't distract me like music
I have no idea about the static noise! Thanks for mentioning, I need to try that. I found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yb-G7Y9ZR8. Is this what you are talking about?
I usually listen to some classical music. It is less distracting than anything else and is pleasant (depending on what you are listening to).
I use this sox command:
You can adjust the frequency and other parameters to suit your environment. Adding tremolo makes it sound a bit like ocean waves.That is ingenious, didn't know play had that capability
http://simplynoise.com is what I use.
http://mynoise.net is the best if you ask me. You can customize everything.
I second my noise! I've used it quite a lot, and it's very customizable. No idea why SimplyNoise is ontop of search results lately, must be some SEO spamming.
Yeah; I've been using simply noise because it was the first thing I found. I'll check out mynoise.
I really like being able to modify things because different kinds of noise block different sounds at different levels with varying effectiveness
I'm fond of http://www.noisli.com/ myself.
I am the opposite, in that static noise just grates on me. I prefer music, but I need it to be familiar (new music is just distracting). I prefer music that I have heard a hundred times, which could be classical music, but could also be Black Sabbath or Dave Brubeck.
I can't stand it if it's got the really high pitched tones in it, but what simplynoise has as uh -- I think brown noise? -- reminds me of being at my aunt and uncles house that's on a river. They lived right next to a series of small overflows/dams and it sounds a lot like the water rushing over those.
Interesting, I will try it out.
Yeah; I just tried http://mynoise.net/ and I've used simply noise. SimplyNoise isn't bad but it looks like you can do more with mynoise. I managed to get a curve I really like.
Hope it works out for you
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Peltor-H10A-Optime-Earmuff/dp/B0000...
The Q & A on those actually says:
Q: I want to get this for use in the office. I hear everything from birds, keyboarding to footsteps. Earplugs are a pain. Would you recommend a pair?
A: Nope - They are designed to cut out noise at higher levels. Solid earplugs are best to cut out noise from birds, footsteps, keyboards (even loud breathing). With these earmuffs you will likely still hear these "quiet sounds". Now if you are around leaf blowers, lawn tractors, heavy machinery, .50 caliber guns, or the like you will be happy with the comfort level that these muffs provide!
I use these occasionally (after ear plugs started causing problems for my ears). They do a pretty good job in my experience at helping me focus even though they do not perfectly cut out some sounds, everything is muffled enough that it's a peaceful sensation if not total silence.
The bigger issue for me is they really can't be worn more than an hour or so at a time without discomfort.
Out of curiosity, what kind of problems did you experience with ear plugs?
See here: http://www.livestrong.com/article/263656-dangers-of-wearing-...
Basically I wore them for the majority of the hours of the day (during sleep + while working) for over two years without any issues then I had a some pretty major impacted ear wax and started looking into it more. Apparently ear plugs are not really good for you. Which is unfortunate because there is really no substitute.
Are there any Noise Cancelling earmuffs that aren't headphones? Is that even possible?