Considering every damn SMTP server out there that talks STARTTLS actually just accepts any certificate by default including self-signed ones, isn't this entire point moot?
It prevents casual attackers watching the wire i.e. network taps but doesn't prevent MITM at all as you can just proxy it with another self signed cert and it goes through.
I know this because our SMTP gateway does exactly that, transparently with postfix.
Yes, the point about downgrades is moot when it comes to server-to-server SMTP, since downgrades have to be allowed to be interoperable.
The downgrade problem isn't moot with other protocols (like IMAP or client-to-server SMTP) which are virtually always expected to be secure. And the other points, about how STARTTLS adds complexity and prevents protocol-agnostic termination, still apply.
Considering every damn SMTP server out there that talks STARTTLS actually just accepts any certificate by default including self-signed ones, isn't this entire point moot?
It's not a protocol but an implementation problem.
Comments
Considering every damn SMTP server out there that talks STARTTLS actually just accepts any certificate by default including self-signed ones, isn't this entire point moot?
It prevents casual attackers watching the wire i.e. network taps but doesn't prevent MITM at all as you can just proxy it with another self signed cert and it goes through.
I know this because our SMTP gateway does exactly that, transparently with postfix.
Yes, the point about downgrades is moot when it comes to server-to-server SMTP, since downgrades have to be allowed to be interoperable.
The downgrade problem isn't moot with other protocols (like IMAP or client-to-server SMTP) which are virtually always expected to be secure. And the other points, about how STARTTLS adds complexity and prevents protocol-agnostic termination, still apply.
Considering every damn SMTP server out there that talks STARTTLS actually just accepts any certificate by default including self-signed ones, isn't this entire point moot?
It's not a protocol but an implementation problem.
STARTTLS is and implementation of SSL/TLS protocol
Kudos for stating the obvious. Now how do we do something about this?