Discoverability is a huge problem. I would at any time want more turn based strategies in the triangle HoMM-Disciples-MoM, but it seems there aren't any? Even if there are, I can't discover them! Only thing that still can do is word of mouth.
I've scraped Play store for wargames and the best I got was a crappy game I did not run for the second time. I believe I paid for that.
Word of mouth is very irregular and app stores' charts are always full with "safe choices", i.e. either you know about this title already or it is a knockoff crap.
I would like to spend more on good games but I don't see much supply.
But the same issue happens everywhere, we have issues discovering non popular web pages because probably the authors don't spend a lot of time figuring out the right keywords, forums, etc to promote their work.
I think the main problem is that competition is more at the distribution level (marketing/sales) than at the product level.
Good games should become big hits. If they don't, we won't have good games.
When gaming was smaller this might have been more true but it's certainly not true in the present.
In any other industry would you expect this? That if any book is good, it would be outselling Dan Brown? Is the best music at the top of the billboard chart? Is the best movie the highest grossing of the summer?
I agree it would be a better world and a better market if the best stuff really was at the top, but since it's not true in any other industry, I think it's silly to expect it to be true in games and just hope you will happen across the best ones.
I don't think the Avatar example is appropriate. Avatar is competing on the top and few films have a budget like it. There are ten of thousands of films in the same year that can't move higher because they can't be distributed in a better way.
Somehow I don't have problems finding good games through the word of a mouth or by looking at some crowdfunding campaigns. And one can have some expectations. For example I'm waiting for Wasteland 2, Torment Tides of Numenera, Divinity Original Sin, Armikrog and some others. Out of recent which just came out and which are good is for example Tex Murphy - Tesla Effect.
That reequires me to keep a good eye on campaigns.
But I am in fact not a gaming enthusiast any more. I want to play some good games from time to time but I'm not going to be an early adopter. Different priorities.
This also requires me to hang around and that I would not do.
I would much prefer the list of hits where every game is a jewel; a list that doesn't get washed in the toilet like reddit does.
But app stores are a waste and there seems to be no independent (tablet) game review sites with any decent coverage (as in having every jewel on top; not as in reviewing every new piece of crap in one long blog)
> I would much prefer the list of hits where every game is a jewel; a list that doesn't get washed in the toilet like reddit does.
I don't think it's possible, because perception of art is often subjective. Surely, some titles are more universally liked than others. But there is no way to make a universal list like that which can satisfy everyone. That's why hearing several opinions can help to get more perspectives.
I don't do tablet gaming much really, since I don't find the vast majority of mobile games to be interesting. I'm playing most games on PC which allows more complex scenarios and richer user interfaces. Mobile is still quite limiting and it cripples most of the games there.
This is very much possible.
http://www.gog.com/games/strategy
This list consists by 2/3 of timeless objective jewels. The rest are nice games too. They were all released in 90s or early 00s.
Can we have a comparable list of games released in last ten years?
"I don't find the vast majority of mobile games to be interesting"
That's what I'm talking about! But, when you run heroes of mignt and magic or civilization on tablet in emulator, it is suddently interesting again!
It's not that tablets suck as a media, it's just almost every game for them is crap (or puzzle, I must add)
Well, I wanted to recommend GOG as a source of good games as well, but you mentioned it yourself :) GOG have new games too, and many of them are good. At least all the good ones which I expect appear there sooner or later.
Above I meant that it's not possible to make a list which everyone will view as perfect. Tastes vary after all. But GOG is a good approximation indeed.
> That's what I'm talking about! But, when you run heroes of mignt and magic or civilization on tablet in emulator, it is suddently interesting again!
Sure, I like playing Loom or Goblins 3 on a tablet in ScummVM for the fun of it :) But that's a rather non typical tablet gaming I suppose.
The solution is to lurk gaming communities. Find a HoMM community, check in on it once a week, and I'm sure you'll find tons of games that you missed out on over the years, and that you'll be one of the first to know about any new games that fit that mold, long before they're even released.
If, as your other comments in the thread suggest, that seems like too much effort to you, then I'm sorry to be blunt, but I guess you don't really care that much. There's nothing wrong with that; no one can devote 100% of their energy to all of their hobbies. It's just that you can't be passionate about something while also expecting everything to find its way to you. Either put the effort in, or just admit it's not that important to you.
Maybe people want a smaller chance of earning $100000 rather than a bigger chance of earning $10000? Also TBS take more effort to develop than endless runners and match-threes.
I would at any time want more turn based strategies in the triangle HoMM-Disciples-MoM, but it seems there aren't any?
You don't even have to go as far as indies to find them -- I can recommend Age of Wonders 3 which just came out. And there are many more good ones in the last few years if you are willing to look a little more indie!
If you only game on iOS... well I stopped gaming there years ago because wading through the free-to-play stuff was so horrible. It's not exactly the same genre but FTL, a game mentioned in that article, is truly great and worth checking out. It's pausible real time at least.
This seems like a good place to plug an ios game relased last week that I've been a long-time tester for, and which could do with some more word-of-mouth (or keyboard as it may be).
It would be even more appropriate if was actually a turn-based strategy game like HoMM, but it might scratch your needs anyway.
Dream Quest (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id870227884?mt=8) is a roguelike-dungeon crawler/deckbuilder. (Think of a cross between Dominion or Ascension and the dungeons in Shandalar, if you've ever played the old microprose game.) The game is really deep, very challenging, and produced by one guy working in his spare time. You have to be willing to accept the graphics as what they are, but the game can be addicting.
I don't think there's anything wrong with showing off projects on HN. We're all here to find interesting content. If the content is interesting and relevant, then creators should feel comfortable posting direct links for all to see.
Comments
Discoverability is a huge problem. I would at any time want more turn based strategies in the triangle HoMM-Disciples-MoM, but it seems there aren't any? Even if there are, I can't discover them! Only thing that still can do is word of mouth.
I've scraped Play store for wargames and the best I got was a crappy game I did not run for the second time. I believe I paid for that.
Word of mouth is very irregular and app stores' charts are always full with "safe choices", i.e. either you know about this title already or it is a knockoff crap.
I would like to spend more on good games but I don't see much supply.
But the same issue happens everywhere, we have issues discovering non popular web pages because probably the authors don't spend a lot of time figuring out the right keywords, forums, etc to promote their work.
I think the main problem is that competition is more at the distribution level (marketing/sales) than at the product level.
Good games should become big hits. If they don't, we won't have good games.
And they aren't; the market is too fragmented to support viral growth of good games. Especially true for smaller fragments like TBS.
When gaming was smaller this might have been more true but it's certainly not true in the present.
In any other industry would you expect this? That if any book is good, it would be outselling Dan Brown? Is the best music at the top of the billboard chart? Is the best movie the highest grossing of the summer?
Yes. This isn't even fantasy. Avatar was highest grossing and it was the best. We need more of that and less of me-too.
Sadly, even the newest Hobbit is me-too for itself.
I agree it would be a better world and a better market if the best stuff really was at the top, but since it's not true in any other industry, I think it's silly to expect it to be true in games and just hope you will happen across the best ones.
I don't think the Avatar example is appropriate. Avatar is competing on the top and few films have a budget like it. There are ten of thousands of films in the same year that can't move higher because they can't be distributed in a better way.
BTW, I think films like Russhmore (1998) and Festen (1998) are much better than Avatar. My complete ranking here: http://www.imdb.com/user/ur0601133/ratings?start=1&view=comp...
Somehow I don't have problems finding good games through the word of a mouth or by looking at some crowdfunding campaigns. And one can have some expectations. For example I'm waiting for Wasteland 2, Torment Tides of Numenera, Divinity Original Sin, Armikrog and some others. Out of recent which just came out and which are good is for example Tex Murphy - Tesla Effect.
That reequires me to keep a good eye on campaigns.
But I am in fact not a gaming enthusiast any more. I want to play some good games from time to time but I'm not going to be an early adopter. Different priorities.
Then your best bet would be to find someone who is a gaming enthusiast and ask for advice what to pick and what's new and worthwhile around :)
I don't have anyone. Some people only play poker, some play TES, most reverted to casual games.
There are many gaming forums / communities where you can ask for that if you are interested.
Some examples (these reflect my preferences since I play on Linux):
* http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/
* http://gamingonlinux.com
There are many others of course.
This also requires me to hang around and that I would not do.
I would much prefer the list of hits where every game is a jewel; a list that doesn't get washed in the toilet like reddit does.
But app stores are a waste and there seems to be no independent (tablet) game review sites with any decent coverage (as in having every jewel on top; not as in reviewing every new piece of crap in one long blog)
> I would much prefer the list of hits where every game is a jewel; a list that doesn't get washed in the toilet like reddit does.
I don't think it's possible, because perception of art is often subjective. Surely, some titles are more universally liked than others. But there is no way to make a universal list like that which can satisfy everyone. That's why hearing several opinions can help to get more perspectives.
I don't do tablet gaming much really, since I don't find the vast majority of mobile games to be interesting. I'm playing most games on PC which allows more complex scenarios and richer user interfaces. Mobile is still quite limiting and it cripples most of the games there.
This is very much possible. http://www.gog.com/games/strategy This list consists by 2/3 of timeless objective jewels. The rest are nice games too. They were all released in 90s or early 00s. Can we have a comparable list of games released in last ten years?
"I don't find the vast majority of mobile games to be interesting"
That's what I'm talking about! But, when you run heroes of mignt and magic or civilization on tablet in emulator, it is suddently interesting again!
It's not that tablets suck as a media, it's just almost every game for them is crap (or puzzle, I must add)
Well, I wanted to recommend GOG as a source of good games as well, but you mentioned it yourself :) GOG have new games too, and many of them are good. At least all the good ones which I expect appear there sooner or later.
Above I meant that it's not possible to make a list which everyone will view as perfect. Tastes vary after all. But GOG is a good approximation indeed.
> That's what I'm talking about! But, when you run heroes of mignt and magic or civilization on tablet in emulator, it is suddently interesting again!
Sure, I like playing Loom or Goblins 3 on a tablet in ScummVM for the fun of it :) But that's a rather non typical tablet gaming I suppose.
And I would like to see that kind of list for tablet games in real genres (not action-puzzle) - WRT quality.
The solution is to lurk gaming communities. Find a HoMM community, check in on it once a week, and I'm sure you'll find tons of games that you missed out on over the years, and that you'll be one of the first to know about any new games that fit that mold, long before they're even released.
If, as your other comments in the thread suggest, that seems like too much effort to you, then I'm sorry to be blunt, but I guess you don't really care that much. There's nothing wrong with that; no one can devote 100% of their energy to all of their hobbies. It's just that you can't be passionate about something while also expecting everything to find its way to you. Either put the effort in, or just admit it's not that important to you.
HoMM2 found way to me without special effort on my part, so did MoM.
I honestly tried searching for tablet TBS both on internets and play store. Didn't find anything playable.
Maybe people want a smaller chance of earning $100000 rather than a bigger chance of earning $10000? Also TBS take more effort to develop than endless runners and match-threes.
PS: did you check this?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tortugatea...
Guess what, market for "endless runners" is big but very competitive. A new Master of Magic, on the other hand, may rake up money for a decade.
No, I didn't, definitely give it a try!
You don't even have to go as far as indies to find them -- I can recommend Age of Wonders 3 which just came out. And there are many more good ones in the last few years if you are willing to look a little more indie!
If you only game on iOS... well I stopped gaming there years ago because wading through the free-to-play stuff was so horrible. It's not exactly the same genre but FTL, a game mentioned in that article, is truly great and worth checking out. It's pausible real time at least.
This seems like a good place to plug an ios game relased last week that I've been a long-time tester for, and which could do with some more word-of-mouth (or keyboard as it may be). It would be even more appropriate if was actually a turn-based strategy game like HoMM, but it might scratch your needs anyway.
Dream Quest (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id870227884?mt=8) is a roguelike-dungeon crawler/deckbuilder. (Think of a cross between Dominion or Ascension and the dungeons in Shandalar, if you've ever played the old microprose game.) The game is really deep, very challenging, and produced by one guy working in his spare time. You have to be willing to accept the graphics as what they are, but the game can be addicting.
It's starting to get a little bit of notice (see http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=228935 or http://www.pockettactics.com/news/ios-news/actually-dream-qu...) but it's all without any marketing budget, let alone art budget.
No art budget? Pretty obvious!
The low hanging fruit of the mobile game marketplace is all gone. If you want to compete you'll have to do a lot better than that.
"You have to be willing to accept the graphics as what they are"
A perfect example of the cause of the discoverability problem. Keep 'em coming, no need to strive for quality.
So close. Better:
"I know the itch you're trying to scratch. Do you mind if I email you a link to the game I've been testing?"
I don't think there's anything wrong with showing off projects on HN. We're all here to find interesting content. If the content is interesting and relevant, then creators should feel comfortable posting direct links for all to see.