Are we supposed to be surprised at this? Appalled? Impressed? Isn't it normal for countries to spy on each other? What do we think intelligence agencies do?
I'm Australian, so I'm probably biased, but the relationship between the two countries is complex, and layered. And it's definitely not a case of yes salah.
And if you think the Indonesians didn't know we were spying on them (and they probably on us), then there's a bridge I can sell you...
I'm Australian, so I'm probably biased, but the relationship between the two countries is complex, and layered.
How's that making any difference to the matter? Colonial powers' relations with their colonies were "complex and layered" too.
And if you think the Indonesians didn't know we were spying on them (and they probably on us), then there's a bridge I can sell you...
Again, what difference does it makes if they knew? A local power (and a US lackey) spies on them, and they know it. Is that much better than if they didn't know it?
It's not like you don't get to enjoy the benefits of spying, blackmailing, upper hand in trade negotiations, etc because they know or suspect you're spying.
And it's not like an (essentially) third world country had any major benefits by their feeble attempts at spying at you themselves...
n an extraordinary admission Indonesia says it bugged Australia’s embassy in Jakarta during the East Timor crisis and has tried to recruit Australians as spies.
Retiring Indonesian intelligence chief General Abdullah Mahmud Hendropriyono has claimed his agency tapped Australian civil and military communications and politicians’ phone calls.
His agency’s attempt to recruit Australians to spy for Indonesia had been unsuccessful, he said…
Hendropriyono, who headed the Badan Intelijen Negara under president Megawati Soekarnoputri’s government, said it was well known that governments tapped each other’s communications and Indonesia had much evidence its embassies abroad were bugged.
“Here, also, we did the same thing. We want to know what is really discussed about us,” he told Sunday .
“We can say this is a public secret. You know, secret but the whole public knows. This is quite common intelligence activity.”
We find Indonesia’s political system opaque, riddled with corruption and prone to nationalist outbursts. We don’t regard Indonesia as true friends (certainly not in the way, for example, we view New Zealand or our other “Five Eyes” partners) and we don’t rule out the possibility that someday, perhaps in the distant future, they may be a threat…
Thirdly, Indonesia is also how to muslim extremists. I think we would want to spy on them considering they have repeatedly attacked Australians:
12 October 2002 — The coordinated bomb attacks occurred on in the tourist district of Kuta, Bali. The attack was claimed as the deadliest act of terrorism in the history of Indonesia according to the current police general, killing 202 people, (including 88 Australians, and 38 Indonesian citizens).
5 August 2003 — A suicide bomber detonated a car bomb outside the lobby of the JW Marriott Hotel, killing twelve people and injuring 150. The hotel located on Mega Kuningan, South Jakarta, Indonesia. All those killed were Indonesian with the exception of one Dutch businessman, one Danish, and two Chinese tourists.
9 September 2004 — A one-tonne car bomb which was packed into a small delivery van, exploded outside the Australian embassy at Kuningan District, South Jakarta, at about 10:30 local time (03:30 UTC), killing 9 people including the suicide bomber, and wounding over 150 others.
1 October 2005 — Series of suicide bomb and a series of car bombs exploded at two sites in Jimbaran Beach Resort and in Kuta, Bali. The terrorist attack claimed the lives of 20 people and injured more than 100 others. The three bombers also died in the attacks
17 July 2009 — The JW Marriott and Ritz-Carlton Hotels in Jakarta, were hit by separate suicide bombings five minutes apart. Three of the seven victims who were killed were Australians, two from the Netherlands, and one each from New Zealand and Indonesia. More than 50 people were injured in the blasts.
Comments
Dog bites man.
Are we supposed to be surprised at this? Appalled? Impressed? Isn't it normal for countries to spy on each other? What do we think intelligence agencies do?
Slavery was normal for several millennia. Massive pollution and environmental carelessness are normal too.
Bad acts aren't justified by being normal. If anything, it means the problem is systemic and therefore needs to be dealt with even more urgently.
Okay, so why is this bad?
Because a large power gains strategic advantages over a developing country.
By that simple statement alone, you've shown an astounding amount of ignorance about Australian-Indonesian relations, or the entire APAC region...
(And an inability to use www.google.com... - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93Indonesia_rel...)
I'm Australian, so I'm probably biased, but the relationship between the two countries is complex, and layered. And it's definitely not a case of yes salah.
And if you think the Indonesians didn't know we were spying on them (and they probably on us), then there's a bridge I can sell you...
How's that making any difference to the matter? Colonial powers' relations with their colonies were "complex and layered" too.
Again, what difference does it makes if they knew? A local power (and a US lackey) spies on them, and they know it. Is that much better than if they didn't know it?
It's not like you don't get to enjoy the benefits of spying, blackmailing, upper hand in trade negotiations, etc because they know or suspect you're spying.
And it's not like an (essentially) third world country had any major benefits by their feeble attempts at spying at you themselves...
Your officially an idiot.
From http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/11/14/1100384426722.h...
n an extraordinary admission Indonesia says it bugged Australia’s embassy in Jakarta during the East Timor crisis and has tried to recruit Australians as spies.
Retiring Indonesian intelligence chief General Abdullah Mahmud Hendropriyono has claimed his agency tapped Australian civil and military communications and politicians’ phone calls.
His agency’s attempt to recruit Australians to spy for Indonesia had been unsuccessful, he said…
Hendropriyono, who headed the Badan Intelijen Negara under president Megawati Soekarnoputri’s government, said it was well known that governments tapped each other’s communications and Indonesia had much evidence its embassies abroad were bugged.
“Here, also, we did the same thing. We want to know what is really discussed about us,” he told Sunday .
“We can say this is a public secret. You know, secret but the whole public knows. This is quite common intelligence activity.”
Should Australia really stick its head in the sand? Secondly, there are many good reasons why we would want to spy on them, from http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/can...:
Canberra just doesn’t trust Jakarta…
We find Indonesia’s political system opaque, riddled with corruption and prone to nationalist outbursts. We don’t regard Indonesia as true friends (certainly not in the way, for example, we view New Zealand or our other “Five Eyes” partners) and we don’t rule out the possibility that someday, perhaps in the distant future, they may be a threat…
Thirdly, Indonesia is also how to muslim extremists. I think we would want to spy on them considering they have repeatedly attacked Australians:
12 October 2002 — The coordinated bomb attacks occurred on in the tourist district of Kuta, Bali. The attack was claimed as the deadliest act of terrorism in the history of Indonesia according to the current police general, killing 202 people, (including 88 Australians, and 38 Indonesian citizens).
5 August 2003 — A suicide bomber detonated a car bomb outside the lobby of the JW Marriott Hotel, killing twelve people and injuring 150. The hotel located on Mega Kuningan, South Jakarta, Indonesia. All those killed were Indonesian with the exception of one Dutch businessman, one Danish, and two Chinese tourists.
9 September 2004 — A one-tonne car bomb which was packed into a small delivery van, exploded outside the Australian embassy at Kuningan District, South Jakarta, at about 10:30 local time (03:30 UTC), killing 9 people including the suicide bomber, and wounding over 150 others.
1 October 2005 — Series of suicide bomb and a series of car bombs exploded at two sites in Jimbaran Beach Resort and in Kuta, Bali. The terrorist attack claimed the lives of 20 people and injured more than 100 others. The three bombers also died in the attacks
17 July 2009 — The JW Marriott and Ritz-Carlton Hotels in Jakarta, were hit by separate suicide bombings five minutes apart. Three of the seven victims who were killed were Australians, two from the Netherlands, and one each from New Zealand and Indonesia. More than 50 people were injured in the blasts.