Could you expand on this please - why would anybody believe that a laptop running a 1.7 GHz Intel Core i7 with 8 GB 16000 MHz DDR3, OS X 10.8.5, and a very snappy flash based storage system wasn't a "real computer?" I think you were trying to say, "It's a real computer with great battery and portability" - right?
I continue to be intrigued by the surface pro - Apple has been slow to bring a stylus capable tablet to market - and there are times when sketching is really important - and it's painful on the "crayon stylus" that you have to use on the iPad. Also - Windows has a lot of great Games. :-)
Multitasking/task switching and lack of a real shell make the iPad a non-starter for me for getting real work done - I would never consider going on a trip with just my iPad.
I think Microsoft is onto something - I just wish they had a decent Terminal App (something better than putty) and bash (cygwin always just feels like it's been tacked on).
"it feels like real computer" was to contrast it with the surface and other devices that are supposed to replace the laptops, not to imply that macbook air is not a real laptop.
The main problem with the Surface Pro IMO, is that it has no Ethernet port... or ports in general. (just one USB3.0 port). Larger laptops are needed if you want to connect to say, your Gb-Ethernet network or whatever.
The Macbook Air may gain a USB3.0 port over the Surface Pro... but thats about it. It also fails to have an Ethernet port, and also lacks the ability to run any Windows-compatible application.
Compared to the Surface Pro, the Macbook Air's resolution is poor and restricting. Finally, a decent Surface Pro will cost you $1030 (Type Cover + Surface Pro), while a similarly specced Macbook Air costs more.
Aside from having "one more" USB3.0 port, I don't think the Macbook Air has any real advantage over the Surface Pro. A "real portable workstation" would be either a Dell Precision Pro, or something similar to those specs. (IE: DVD Drive, tons of Ports, Gigabit Ethernet).
Granted, both companies offer a solution. Surface-Dock seems rather complete for the Surface Pro, and Thunderbolt from the MacWorld does work. Nonetheless, it'd be nice to have enough features built into a laptop... extra devices / gadgets / attachments are annoying to handle.
Macbook Air is cheaper - it has a 10 Gigabit Thunderbolt port (useful for docking to a Gigabit Port, external display, etc..), Two USB 3.0 ports, and 4 GB memory for $999. A 4GB/128GB Surface Pro goes for $1128.
Pro has the touch screen, and stylus.
I think, at the end of the day, what decides this is how much you can use the stylus and want windows apps/games.
I don't have very much hope for Thunderbolt. It seems to be going the way by Firewire.
The Thunderbolt Cables cost like $40 a pop, adapters can cost more as well. Its a far cry from just being able to plug a GbE port directly into the darn thing.
As stated before, Thunderbolt is roughly comparable to the Surface Dock. You can connect an external display and Ethernet port through Thunderbolt, but you have to pay through the nose on extra wires and extra adapters. (or $200 for the Surface Dock).
BTW: Surface Pro prices are much cheaper. $1030 gets you the 128GB model now. The SurfacePro has 1080p screen. Not a single Macbook Air model has a decent resolution.
I think at the end of the day, what decides it is how much you want the 1080p screen, Stylus, Windows applications (and Windows Domain Joining for those business users), and portability.
Price-for-price, Surface Pro just gives you more than even the cheapest Macbook Air. Its just a better deal frankly.
Re: Thunderbolt - You have USB 3.0 for generic connections. Thunderbolt for VGA/Gigabit/Docking/DVDI. Thunderbolt is thankfully compatible with Display Port, so you can connect your 30" monitor at 2560x1600 over a $5 mini-display port to display port cable (as I am right now). I haven't used my Gigabit Adapter in a couple years, and this was even before 802.11ac came out. I don't know if I'll ever use one again.
I guess if you are resolution sensitive - then the Surface Pro has that going for it as well (I've never preferred the retina versus the normal resolution on Laptops - so that's kind of wasted on me)
Regarding what's a better deal - like you said, it all depends on what you want. I've got bash/terminal.app/aperture/quicksilver all in my finger memory now, so kind of stuck on OS X. And - we can't overlook the keyboard. Be interesting to see if the Surface Pro can go head to head with a laptop keyboard.
Regarding Windows Domain Joining - works fine on OS X for the last couple iterations, pretty much the same as the PC for things like accessing file shares. And, Office Productivity Apps (Excel/Office/PowerPoint) are pretty identical on the Mac (plus we get Acorn, Pixelmator, iDraw)...
You've got me intrigued though - I'll have to go into the Microsoft Store and play with one for a bit - the Stylus alone is really, really intriguing. And all those PC Games...
I have SecureCRT on my Windows systems (been a loyal users since 1998). It's somewhat better than Putty - but neither of them compare to Terminal.App/iTerm2.
It's always been unclear to me why nobody has written a great terminal application for Windows. Is it just because the majority of those who really care are already using Linux or OS X?
I find it somewhat ironic that a significant portion of the command line population has migrated to the macintosh.
Indeed, I own a 2012 MacBook Air and I'm convinced they're the best line of laptop computers on the market right now. I severely underestimated how much I would enjoy the tremendous portability.
I guess I don't need both an MBA and a Surface, considering I also have an iPhone.
Honestly now that I think about it, I think my biggest concern with the surface would be the fact that it runs windows. As a hacker who grew up on UNIX/Linux I find that really limiting, but moreover as someone who has heavily adopted the Apple ecosystem, I feel like I could never use the surface to its fullest potential.
I think what I want is a Surface which runs iOS X. (You read that correctly.)
The thing is, however, that when you actually try them out, the MB air leaves a hugely better impression.
The MB air is light, sleek, elegant, it feels good in your hands, it makes you want to use it and carry it around—and that's despite it being a notebook, not a tablet.
The Surface Pro 1, however, is exactly the opposite: it's heavy, thick, uncomfortable to hold because of the weird sharp-edged shape, and insanely hot during operation. The Surface Pro is exactly what a tablet shouldn't be. I suppose MS has all but admitted that with their strong marketing emphasis on using it with a stand and a keyboard.
I certainly hope for MS's sake that the Surface Pro 2 is better, because the SP1 was a disaster...
I used Surface Pro for my graduate thesis extensively. It left a huge impression on me. Metro side apps were all fun for me, while a swipe to desktop meant all work business. Yeah 1 kg is not a big deal for me, i taught classes with it, took notes with it, ran IBM SPSS doing ANOVA, wrote papers in LATEX and did some SolidWorks, and heavy MATLAB work on it. It is hot, yes. But then, it remained in my lap for around 5% of the time.
I find your claims ("heavy, thick, uncomfortable to hold because of the weird sharp-edged shape") to be without merit, since I used it extensively for some major work. Going forward, Surface Pro is the future for me and my household.
Comments
I would say apple addressed that problem with macbook air. it feels like real computer, yet it has amazing battery and portability.
what I am seeing is that people use air for the more serious jobs when sitting somewhare and their smartphone for the rest.
" it feels like real computer,"
Could you expand on this please - why would anybody believe that a laptop running a 1.7 GHz Intel Core i7 with 8 GB 16000 MHz DDR3, OS X 10.8.5, and a very snappy flash based storage system wasn't a "real computer?" I think you were trying to say, "It's a real computer with great battery and portability" - right?
I continue to be intrigued by the surface pro - Apple has been slow to bring a stylus capable tablet to market - and there are times when sketching is really important - and it's painful on the "crayon stylus" that you have to use on the iPad. Also - Windows has a lot of great Games. :-)
Multitasking/task switching and lack of a real shell make the iPad a non-starter for me for getting real work done - I would never consider going on a trip with just my iPad.
I think Microsoft is onto something - I just wish they had a decent Terminal App (something better than putty) and bash (cygwin always just feels like it's been tacked on).
"it feels like real computer" was to contrast it with the surface and other devices that are supposed to replace the laptops, not to imply that macbook air is not a real laptop.
Really?
The main problem with the Surface Pro IMO, is that it has no Ethernet port... or ports in general. (just one USB3.0 port). Larger laptops are needed if you want to connect to say, your Gb-Ethernet network or whatever.
The Macbook Air may gain a USB3.0 port over the Surface Pro... but thats about it. It also fails to have an Ethernet port, and also lacks the ability to run any Windows-compatible application.
Compared to the Surface Pro, the Macbook Air's resolution is poor and restricting. Finally, a decent Surface Pro will cost you $1030 (Type Cover + Surface Pro), while a similarly specced Macbook Air costs more.
Aside from having "one more" USB3.0 port, I don't think the Macbook Air has any real advantage over the Surface Pro. A "real portable workstation" would be either a Dell Precision Pro, or something similar to those specs. (IE: DVD Drive, tons of Ports, Gigabit Ethernet).
Granted, both companies offer a solution. Surface-Dock seems rather complete for the Surface Pro, and Thunderbolt from the MacWorld does work. Nonetheless, it'd be nice to have enough features built into a laptop... extra devices / gadgets / attachments are annoying to handle.
Macbook Air is cheaper - it has a 10 Gigabit Thunderbolt port (useful for docking to a Gigabit Port, external display, etc..), Two USB 3.0 ports, and 4 GB memory for $999. A 4GB/128GB Surface Pro goes for $1128.
Pro has the touch screen, and stylus.
I think, at the end of the day, what decides this is how much you can use the stylus and want windows apps/games.
I don't have very much hope for Thunderbolt. It seems to be going the way by Firewire.
The Thunderbolt Cables cost like $40 a pop, adapters can cost more as well. Its a far cry from just being able to plug a GbE port directly into the darn thing.
As stated before, Thunderbolt is roughly comparable to the Surface Dock. You can connect an external display and Ethernet port through Thunderbolt, but you have to pay through the nose on extra wires and extra adapters. (or $200 for the Surface Dock).
BTW: Surface Pro prices are much cheaper. $1030 gets you the 128GB model now. The SurfacePro has 1080p screen. Not a single Macbook Air model has a decent resolution.
I think at the end of the day, what decides it is how much you want the 1080p screen, Stylus, Windows applications (and Windows Domain Joining for those business users), and portability.
Price-for-price, Surface Pro just gives you more than even the cheapest Macbook Air. Its just a better deal frankly.
Re: Thunderbolt - You have USB 3.0 for generic connections. Thunderbolt for VGA/Gigabit/Docking/DVDI. Thunderbolt is thankfully compatible with Display Port, so you can connect your 30" monitor at 2560x1600 over a $5 mini-display port to display port cable (as I am right now). I haven't used my Gigabit Adapter in a couple years, and this was even before 802.11ac came out. I don't know if I'll ever use one again.
I guess if you are resolution sensitive - then the Surface Pro has that going for it as well (I've never preferred the retina versus the normal resolution on Laptops - so that's kind of wasted on me)
Regarding what's a better deal - like you said, it all depends on what you want. I've got bash/terminal.app/aperture/quicksilver all in my finger memory now, so kind of stuck on OS X. And - we can't overlook the keyboard. Be interesting to see if the Surface Pro can go head to head with a laptop keyboard.
Regarding Windows Domain Joining - works fine on OS X for the last couple iterations, pretty much the same as the PC for things like accessing file shares. And, Office Productivity Apps (Excel/Office/PowerPoint) are pretty identical on the Mac (plus we get Acorn, Pixelmator, iDraw)...
You've got me intrigued though - I'll have to go into the Microsoft Store and play with one for a bit - the Stylus alone is really, really intriguing. And all those PC Games...
It's not cheap, but SecureCRT is a fantastic terminal app.
I have SecureCRT on my Windows systems (been a loyal users since 1998). It's somewhat better than Putty - but neither of them compare to Terminal.App/iTerm2.
It's always been unclear to me why nobody has written a great terminal application for Windows. Is it just because the majority of those who really care are already using Linux or OS X?
I find it somewhat ironic that a significant portion of the command line population has migrated to the macintosh.
Windows user here who spends a lot of the time on the command line. PuTTY is good enough.
I'm actually in the process of writing a Metro terminal app which will hopefully fill the void here.
ConEmu is probably the best terminal for Windows at the moment, but it takes some customization to get there, and it has some strange concepts.
Indeed, I own a 2012 MacBook Air and I'm convinced they're the best line of laptop computers on the market right now. I severely underestimated how much I would enjoy the tremendous portability.
I guess I don't need both an MBA and a Surface, considering I also have an iPhone.
Honestly now that I think about it, I think my biggest concern with the surface would be the fact that it runs windows. As a hacker who grew up on UNIX/Linux I find that really limiting, but moreover as someone who has heavily adopted the Apple ecosystem, I feel like I could never use the surface to its fullest potential.
I think what I want is a Surface which runs iOS X. (You read that correctly.)
You can turn off Secure Boot and install Linux to it if you really dislike Windows.
Ubuntu installs cleanly on Surface Pros. The only part that doesn't work is the WiFi driver IIRC, but people have found workarounds for that.
Touchscreen. Stylus. Tablet+Laptop. Portability. Battery. High resolution screen. All in Surface Pro.
The thing is, however, that when you actually try them out, the MB air leaves a hugely better impression.
The MB air is light, sleek, elegant, it feels good in your hands, it makes you want to use it and carry it around—and that's despite it being a notebook, not a tablet.
The Surface Pro 1, however, is exactly the opposite: it's heavy, thick, uncomfortable to hold because of the weird sharp-edged shape, and insanely hot during operation. The Surface Pro is exactly what a tablet shouldn't be. I suppose MS has all but admitted that with their strong marketing emphasis on using it with a stand and a keyboard.
I certainly hope for MS's sake that the Surface Pro 2 is better, because the SP1 was a disaster...
I used Surface Pro for my graduate thesis extensively. It left a huge impression on me. Metro side apps were all fun for me, while a swipe to desktop meant all work business. Yeah 1 kg is not a big deal for me, i taught classes with it, took notes with it, ran IBM SPSS doing ANOVA, wrote papers in LATEX and did some SolidWorks, and heavy MATLAB work on it. It is hot, yes. But then, it remained in my lap for around 5% of the time.
I find your claims ("heavy, thick, uncomfortable to hold because of the weird sharp-edged shape") to be without merit, since I used it extensively for some major work. Going forward, Surface Pro is the future for me and my household.