I wander where did you get all this "serious data" and statements over Brazil ?
about Spying: NO one country has this mass surveilance state patronized by public money in the world. its proven.. its scary, and its US..
This must stop, period.
if every citizen take care of its own country actions.. so they do not interfere badly with the other countries.. we would be just fine..
Anyway.. this happening its a warning to all of us.. we should listen carefully, and take good measures about it..
cause in peace time, they might look harmles or like a joke.. but in war time, or with dictatorships, they might have severe consequences
It doesn't seem like you disproved the claim that Brazil aggressively spies on its own citizens and, thus, that this is hypocritical populist rhetoric.
if every citizen take care of its own country actions.. so they do not interfere badly with the other countries.. we would be just fine..
The US's spy complex is a MUCH bigger threat to those of us here in the US than it is to those abroad, and anyway there is nothing we citizens can do to stop it anytime soon, so don't hold your breath.
It doesn't seem like you disproved the claim that Brazil aggressively spies on its own citizens and, thus, that this is hypocritical populist rhetoric.
It can do whatever it want on it's own citizens. If they don't like it, they can vote them out of the office.
It's a third country spying on them (or on my country) I don't like.
For one, if I'm a business owner/scientist/engineer working on some stuff, they can do "industrial espionage" and give the stuff (or a heads up) to US companies/the army/whoever.
Second, they can use their spying on a country's politicians to influence that country's policy (like spying on a party they don't like in favor of a party that serve's their interests), do market and diplomatic moves against them, etc.
Third, who said foreigners never travel to the US?
I have serious objections the the NSAs domestic spying and foreign surveillance of civilians in other countries. Unfortunately, like any major power, US foreign surveillance is not going to go away because 1) everyone else does it and 2) there's no way to verify that other countries have stopped even if they did.
If you read the history of arms control talks between the US and the USSR, the only reason they worked was because both parties could verify that the other was honoring the agreement. The Russians could physically look at satellite photos and verify the US actually removed some of its ICBMs and vice versa.
There is no way to verify a country is not spying on you. As such, no country, no matter their rhetoric, is going to actually give up that ability for the hope that others do so as well. It's a suckers bet.
The solution to privacy in the face of foreign dragnet surveillance is cryptography.
The solution to privacy in the face of foreign dragnet surveillance is cryptography.
I agree with you on that.. of course defensive matters must come to aid this dragnet environment..
We cannot put the genie back in the bottle anymore,once he came out..
But,together with preventive and defensive measures, politically we must make our governments and rule makers to stand in favor of privacy, writing more severe laws against mass surveilance, that do not obey any court order for particular citizens....
Even if they lie, and they tell us they do so.. once we catch them lying, like right now, we can do something about it, in the political sphere.. their political position are defenseless
For instance, Companies in US right now need to fight politically over this, because even the economy is in danger..
So i think this is a battle that should be fight in two fronts.. If we pick just one of them, we will lost in the long term
I am from Slovenia, our entire GDP is lower than what CIA and NSA get.
I am pretty sure that our government spying doesn't come even remotely close to what USA (and others in 5 eyes) does.
Maybe Russia and China have similar ambitions, nobody else comes close (France is probably envious, but their capabilities are limited).
So out of nearly 200 countries maybe half a dozen have similar programs. I would't call that everybody.
(Most other countries limit their spying to relevant local threats.)
PS: That doesn't mean that various spies in other countries don't have wet dreams about having similar capability to US, but that's all they have dreams.
Comments
I wander where did you get all this "serious data" and statements over Brazil ?
about Spying: NO one country has this mass surveilance state patronized by public money in the world. its proven.. its scary, and its US..
This must stop, period.
if every citizen take care of its own country actions.. so they do not interfere badly with the other countries.. we would be just fine..
Anyway.. this happening its a warning to all of us.. we should listen carefully, and take good measures about it.. cause in peace time, they might look harmles or like a joke.. but in war time, or with dictatorships, they might have severe consequences
It doesn't seem like you disproved the claim that Brazil aggressively spies on its own citizens and, thus, that this is hypocritical populist rhetoric.
The US's spy complex is a MUCH bigger threat to those of us here in the US than it is to those abroad, and anyway there is nothing we citizens can do to stop it anytime soon, so don't hold your breath.
It can do whatever it want on it's own citizens. If they don't like it, they can vote them out of the office.
It's a third country spying on them (or on my country) I don't like.
But the US can't violate your rights unless you're here.
Not really.
For one, if I'm a business owner/scientist/engineer working on some stuff, they can do "industrial espionage" and give the stuff (or a heads up) to US companies/the army/whoever.
Second, they can use their spying on a country's politicians to influence that country's policy (like spying on a party they don't like in favor of a party that serve's their interests), do market and diplomatic moves against them, etc.
Third, who said foreigners never travel to the US?
I have serious objections the the NSAs domestic spying and foreign surveillance of civilians in other countries. Unfortunately, like any major power, US foreign surveillance is not going to go away because 1) everyone else does it and 2) there's no way to verify that other countries have stopped even if they did.
If you read the history of arms control talks between the US and the USSR, the only reason they worked was because both parties could verify that the other was honoring the agreement. The Russians could physically look at satellite photos and verify the US actually removed some of its ICBMs and vice versa.
There is no way to verify a country is not spying on you. As such, no country, no matter their rhetoric, is going to actually give up that ability for the hope that others do so as well. It's a suckers bet.
The solution to privacy in the face of foreign dragnet surveillance is cryptography.
I agree with you on that.. of course defensive matters must come to aid this dragnet environment..
We cannot put the genie back in the bottle anymore,once he came out..
But,together with preventive and defensive measures, politically we must make our governments and rule makers to stand in favor of privacy, writing more severe laws against mass surveilance, that do not obey any court order for particular citizens....
Even if they lie, and they tell us they do so.. once we catch them lying, like right now, we can do something about it, in the political sphere.. their political position are defenseless
For instance, Companies in US right now need to fight politically over this, because even the economy is in danger..
So i think this is a battle that should be fight in two fronts.. If we pick just one of them, we will lost in the long term
I am from Slovenia, our entire GDP is lower than what CIA and NSA get.
I am pretty sure that our government spying doesn't come even remotely close to what USA (and others in 5 eyes) does.
Maybe Russia and China have similar ambitions, nobody else comes close (France is probably envious, but their capabilities are limited).
So out of nearly 200 countries maybe half a dozen have similar programs. I would't call that everybody.
(Most other countries limit their spying to relevant local threats.)
PS: That doesn't mean that various spies in other countries don't have wet dreams about having similar capability to US, but that's all they have dreams.