Jesus. He's not saying the visit was a good idea. In fact, he's said the opposite. Character assassination is bad enough, but to do it for absolutely no reason at all?
The fact is that you have absolutely no idea what happened, or even what some of the words in your comment (like "JTTF") actually mean. But you've got strong opinions and a lot of outrage. Because you're an outrage tourist. I wouldn't be surprised if you'd be angrier to find out that the FBI HADN'T been dragnetting Google.
I would say that labeling someone who posted factual evidence that M-66 explosives are in fact legal and relatively ordinary recreational fireworks as an "outrage tourist" is a beautiful example of character assassination. Far more so than merely alluding to the title of a self-identified media correspondent who goes on to make a defense that the photos are public and that law enforcement can access them, while de-emphasizing/distracting from the fact that neither google searches for pressure cookers nor facebook photos of fireworks merit a law enforcement visit. Verbatim from declan's G+ post "Having curious local cops ask you questions about your public photos of explosives is not [a big story]."
If one or the other is potentially happening, then there is a cause for concern that at least justifies a personal article on medium by Catalano. Had law enforcement actually revealed to Catalano, that hey, we're visiting you because you posted fireworks on your facebook, then she probably wouldn't have written that article. However, being investigated in a Kafkaesque manner, where you have little idea what your original crime could have been since you are a law-abiding citizen (searching for pressure cookers or posting fireworks photos on facebook is pretty innocuous behavior) might lead to legitimate speculation on the methods of law enforcement.
EDIT: None of this is to say that mass media isn't overly eager to report stories without enough support, and kudos to declan's investigative skills and intent, but I do think that drawing conclusions based on contrarianism and real character assassination of someone who added legitimate facts to the discussion isn't very productive.
tptacek, when you have a moment please answer the questions I asked you an hour ago here, addressing a number of falsehoods you have been claiming about this incident:
Of course you already saw that some time ago and chose not to answer, but that post does show that you are aware that I know exactly what the JTTF is, contrary to the bald faced and audacious lies you have just stated.
Why, so you can find more ways to call me names too?
"JTTF" does not not necessarily mean what you think it means; and in fact the interpretation you've used has probably already been shot down; David Gomez says LEOs involved in FBI-managed JTTFs all have federal credentials. But of course you knew that, right?
I'm not sure what you mean by this exactly. What does "federal credentials" mean?
JTTFs are manned by both federal and local LEOs. The Chicago JTTF, for example, absolutely includes detectives from both Chicago Police Department and Cook County Sheriff's Police.
According to Gomez, as I understood him, when they're doing federal JTTF work, they display federal JTTF credentials. But he also said the term has lost meaning; it's used as a catch-all for specialized teams of any sort doing CT work.
I see. I've not seen authoritative JTTF credentials, or if I did I didn't look at it closely. I have seen a JTTF badge printed on an LEO business card, but I hadn't actually considered that there might actually be a legit JTTF shield!
Seems significantly more likely than what was claimed in the original story:
1. The NSA using monitoring technology against civilians in the country, against their charter.
2. County sheriffs deputies who are members of the Joint Terrorism Task Force obtaining this classified information from the NSA
3. Aforementioned county sheriffs accidentally divulging said classified data
I'd listen to an argument that points 1 or 3 occurred. Point 2? Way more likely that somebody read facebook than interagency communication of classified data from a classified program to a local law enforcement officer with no security clearance.
That's just one public post he found. There may be others. Overall, the theory that overzealous local police are monitoring local citizens' social media posts is much more plausible than what's been reported.
Remember that most Google searches are encrypted these days, plus it would be profoundly stupid for the NSA/FBI to reveal a program targeting citizens by rolling trucks to their doors at the mere mention of "pressure cooker backpack".
What does this stock firecracker photo posted on July 4th have to do with [..] agents searching this couple's house and asking them specific questions about whether they owned a pressure cooker?
It is reliable that some people searched the house and asked that, right?
"JTTF agents" in this case would be FBI agents part of a JTTF I guess. As a tip, if someone uses bigger words than necessary, simply replace them mentally and see if there's still something there.
The former employee’s computer searches took place on this employee’s workplace computer. On that computer, the employee searched the terms “pressure cooker bombs” and “backpacks.”
So it wasn't Google, but it was because of searching for pressure cookers; it wasn't posting images of firecrackers on facebook, but it was a tip-off based on (private) surveillance.
Comments
Jesus. He's not saying the visit was a good idea. In fact, he's said the opposite. Character assassination is bad enough, but to do it for absolutely no reason at all?
The fact is that you have absolutely no idea what happened, or even what some of the words in your comment (like "JTTF") actually mean. But you've got strong opinions and a lot of outrage. Because you're an outrage tourist. I wouldn't be surprised if you'd be angrier to find out that the FBI HADN'T been dragnetting Google.
How ironic.
I would say that labeling someone who posted factual evidence that M-66 explosives are in fact legal and relatively ordinary recreational fireworks as an "outrage tourist" is a beautiful example of character assassination. Far more so than merely alluding to the title of a self-identified media correspondent who goes on to make a defense that the photos are public and that law enforcement can access them, while de-emphasizing/distracting from the fact that neither google searches for pressure cookers nor facebook photos of fireworks merit a law enforcement visit. Verbatim from declan's G+ post "Having curious local cops ask you questions about your public photos of explosives is not [a big story]."
If one or the other is potentially happening, then there is a cause for concern that at least justifies a personal article on medium by Catalano. Had law enforcement actually revealed to Catalano, that hey, we're visiting you because you posted fireworks on your facebook, then she probably wouldn't have written that article. However, being investigated in a Kafkaesque manner, where you have little idea what your original crime could have been since you are a law-abiding citizen (searching for pressure cookers or posting fireworks photos on facebook is pretty innocuous behavior) might lead to legitimate speculation on the methods of law enforcement.
EDIT: None of this is to say that mass media isn't overly eager to report stories without enough support, and kudos to declan's investigative skills and intent, but I do think that drawing conclusions based on contrarianism and real character assassination of someone who added legitimate facts to the discussion isn't very productive.
tptacek, when you have a moment please answer the questions I asked you an hour ago here, addressing a number of falsehoods you have been claiming about this incident:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6142909
Of course you already saw that some time ago and chose not to answer, but that post does show that you are aware that I know exactly what the JTTF is, contrary to the bald faced and audacious lies you have just stated.
Why, so you can find more ways to call me names too?
"JTTF" does not not necessarily mean what you think it means; and in fact the interpretation you've used has probably already been shot down; David Gomez says LEOs involved in FBI-managed JTTFs all have federal credentials. But of course you knew that, right?
I'm not sure what you mean by this exactly. What does "federal credentials" mean?
JTTFs are manned by both federal and local LEOs. The Chicago JTTF, for example, absolutely includes detectives from both Chicago Police Department and Cook County Sheriff's Police.
According to Gomez, as I understood him, when they're doing federal JTTF work, they display federal JTTF credentials. But he also said the term has lost meaning; it's used as a catch-all for specialized teams of any sort doing CT work.
I see. I've not seen authoritative JTTF credentials, or if I did I didn't look at it closely. I have seen a JTTF badge printed on an LEO business card, but I hadn't actually considered that there might actually be a legit JTTF shield!
He's also saying the fireworks were the reason the police visited. Which seems unlikely.
Seems significantly more likely than what was claimed in the original story:
1. The NSA using monitoring technology against civilians in the country, against their charter. 2. County sheriffs deputies who are members of the Joint Terrorism Task Force obtaining this classified information from the NSA 3. Aforementioned county sheriffs accidentally divulging said classified data
I'd listen to an argument that points 1 or 3 occurred. Point 2? Way more likely that somebody read facebook than interagency communication of classified data from a classified program to a local law enforcement officer with no security clearance.
We don't even know that the police looked at the page; for all we know, someone called this in to the police.
Hey, guess what? Someone called this into the police. I'm shocked.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6144198
Absolutely stunning that Occam's Razor won out.
Occam's Razor is pre-Snowden thinking. Like 9/11, Snowden changed everything.
That's just one public post he found. There may be others. Overall, the theory that overzealous local police are monitoring local citizens' social media posts is much more plausible than what's been reported.
Remember that most Google searches are encrypted these days, plus it would be profoundly stupid for the NSA/FBI to reveal a program targeting citizens by rolling trucks to their doors at the mere mention of "pressure cooker backpack".
Character assassination is bad enough, but to do it for absolutely no reason at all? [..] you're an outrage tourist.
Uhhh. Was that just to bury the very valid and very simple question at the end of the post, or for no reason at all?
What valid and simple question? Which of the premises of that question are reliable at this point? For instance, what does "JTTF agent" even mean?
What does this stock firecracker photo posted on July 4th have to do with [..] agents searching this couple's house and asking them specific questions about whether they owned a pressure cooker?
It is reliable that some people searched the house and asked that, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JTTF
"JTTF agents" in this case would be FBI agents part of a JTTF I guess. As a tip, if someone uses bigger words than necessary, simply replace them mentally and see if there's still something there.
51% of Wikipedians might believe they know who knocked on these people's door, but we happen to know in this case that it was the Suffolk County PD.
and now we even know why: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6144198
The former employee’s computer searches took place on this employee’s workplace computer. On that computer, the employee searched the terms “pressure cooker bombs” and “backpacks.”
So it wasn't Google, but it was because of searching for pressure cookers; it wasn't posting images of firecrackers on facebook, but it was a tip-off based on (private) surveillance.