I have ~no problem with gov on gov spying. I actually have more problem with China's spying on US companies for commercial reasons than China's spying on the USG. USG spying on private individuals might be worse than China spying on USG from an abstract moral perspective.
I'd argue that US v USSR spying during the Cold War, particularly PHOTOINT and SIGINT and other forms of technical intelligence, largely averted a global thermonuclear war. Gov v Gov spying is just another form of transparency. (obviously as a US citizen I'd prefer the US to have an edge there, but generally for something like Brazil v Argentina I don't particularly care)
HN loves wikipedia pages lately. If anyone is interested in a fascinating example of this blurry line between spying and transparency that rdl brings up check out:
This has long been recognised, and sometimes even codified. For example there is the Treaty on Open Skies, under which member states allow each other unarmed surveillance flights over their territories.
It's worth noting that, with "gov on gov spying", identifying enemy agents isn't all that easy and effectively requires well... a surveillance state spying on its own citizens.
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I have ~no problem with gov on gov spying. I actually have more problem with China's spying on US companies for commercial reasons than China's spying on the USG. USG spying on private individuals might be worse than China spying on USG from an abstract moral perspective.
I'd argue that US v USSR spying during the Cold War, particularly PHOTOINT and SIGINT and other forms of technical intelligence, largely averted a global thermonuclear war. Gov v Gov spying is just another form of transparency. (obviously as a US citizen I'd prefer the US to have an edge there, but generally for something like Brazil v Argentina I don't particularly care)
HN loves wikipedia pages lately. If anyone is interested in a fascinating example of this blurry line between spying and transparency that rdl brings up check out:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Open_Skies
This has long been recognised, and sometimes even codified. For example there is the Treaty on Open Skies, under which member states allow each other unarmed surveillance flights over their territories.
It's worth noting that, with "gov on gov spying", identifying enemy agents isn't all that easy and effectively requires well... a surveillance state spying on its own citizens.
Intelligence and counterintelligence are two different things.