When things like this happen, names, pictures, and home addresses of responsible managers should be posted on the Internet so that the good fight can start.
That is really not OK. People who publish such information and call for vigilante justice should be found and prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law.
Even if we knew with 100% certainty that the boss played a role in this guy’s death (which we don’t), then it would be up to the DA and the court, not the angry mob with pitchforks or the cowardly script kids on 4chan.
Vigilante justice is terrible but I don't see anything else doing the job; it may be a last resort but I think our globalist-corporatist society is At That Point. The people with connections and resources own the politicians (all over the world) who make the laws. Besides, even if one country does everything right, the parasites in charge of the world can just move their money around.
I've been saying since the late '90s that health insurance executives should be publicly exposed when they murder people, and I still feel that way. If the courts were actually cracking down on those fuckers, then I'd say that vigilante justice is unwarranted; but how many health-insurance murderers are in prison? The fuckers kill 45,000 per year (a 9/11 every 24 days) and I don't know of one who has gone to prison.
Why do we tear the shit out of two Middle Eastern nations (one of which had nothing to do with it) over 3,000 dead but allow health insurers to kill half a million over that same decade and not even give them personal civil liability?
All societies tend toward Feudalism given enough time. The rent seekers control everything, and the masses surrender their liberty in exchange for security. History has demonstrated this countless times, which is why the Bill of Rights enshrined the right of the public to form militias to protect their own rights (the original 2nd Amendment).
Unfortunately, over two centuries the rent seekers have won again, so a reboot is required. How to initiate and sustain a successful reboot is the tricky part.
I sense from your writings that you are increasingly frustrated with the current state of affairs. I just want to emphasize that you aren't the only one, and if you were to formalize your dissent into an actionable movement, many would support you. The time may have come for the Technocrat to take his place on the world stage...
We are irrational sheep. As long as the "average" person has their "average" basic life needs met, some entertainment and some hope of a better life, this shit will continue.
A true "correction" would be bloody and very destructive, since no one in power is going to give up power willingly. They are more likely to go to the extreme and "cull" the masses to reduce what they see as the "problem".
That is a very narrow solution space you are considering. I can think of a dozen non-violent proposals which would involve nothing more than fiscal policy changes. For example: flat tax and basic income for all, such that there is no special treatment of corporations over individual entities. No tax breaks, no loopholes.
This would work best if implemented with direct democracy and a program of lean government held liable to be fully transparent on all spending.
Of course the currently vested interests would fight this to the grave, but there is a point at which the people will no longer suffer the reign of Feudal lords (I predict that to be about 40% unemployment, or 70% youth unemployment).
I don't think putting the blame squarely on the managers is a wise thing to do. Bad managers are symptoms to larger problems of society. A better goal in this case is getting people informed about the truths and the back stories of our nice electronics and where they came from, who made them, in what conditions, etc.
I'd be inclined to give direct managers a pass, in most cases. Chances are, the guy's direct boss is working in the same horrible conditions as he had.
I still think that this man must be avenged, possibly many degrees up the chain. Where in the hierarchy that happens, I don't have the information that would be needed to call that shot.
A better goal in this case is getting people informed about the truths and the back stories of our nice electronic sand where they came from, who made them, in what conditions, etc.
I agree. And I'd like to see alternatives. I'm glad that China is industrializing. That's a really good thing. However, I'd prefer the option to pay $200 more for a device made in humane conditions.
I still think that this man must be avenged, possibly many degrees up the chain.
Why must he be avenged? I mean, that is pretty rather strong language there. Why shouldn't his superiors just be subject to an investigation and held accountable for specific wrongs and oversights?
Michael, there's an order and law to be respected, and I think indeed you'll only find success in the fights of injustices if you walk in an avenue already established (know that this world will by and large resist most all progressive and novel ideas, you either have to disguise your ideas in sweetly packaged trojan horse forms, or have yourself backed by immense power to see any substantial change effected).
However, I'd prefer the option to pay $200 more for a device made in humane conditions.
Me too. We've gotta find some way to let the world know this.
May I have your e-mail address please? I'd like to speak to you about some things.
Is there? The people in charge of this society have made themselves above all laws and order.
If murder were truly illegal for everyone, explain health insurance. Why do rich people get to hide behind their companies when they let people die for profit? Highly inconsistent, that is.
I think indeed you'll only find success in the fights of injustices if you walk in an avenue already established
Well, I have mixed feelings about that. Nonviolent overthrow of an oppressor is always better than the violent kind, but violence is better than doing nothing and letting an evil elite reign.
If there's a nonviolent way to get rid of the current global elite, I'd love to hear it. Technology is supposed to deliver on that; we don't "overthrow" them, we just outperform them. In practice, though, they seem to have redefined the rules to suit them (see: VC-istan) and keep us "in our place".
Unfortunately, I sense that the majority of HN readers are still in the idealistic phase of their political views. As in, they believe in the ideals of a nation and not its realities. It can be very difficult, even traumatizing, for a person to transition from one to the other. Here is Aaron Swartz's experience: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/epiphany
You can only tackle a problem once you acknowledge it exists. Unfortunately, I have yet to see that critical mass on HN regarding the issues you are passionate about. Until that happens, you will just be seen as a pessimistic contrarian by such folk.
I recommend that anyone who fiercely disagrees, or is confused by, Michael's viewpoints on this issue to read Chomsky's Understanding Power.
Comments
When things like this happen, names, pictures, and home addresses of responsible managers should be posted on the Internet so that the good fight can start.
That is really not OK. People who publish such information and call for vigilante justice should be found and prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law.
Even if we knew with 100% certainty that the boss played a role in this guy’s death (which we don’t), then it would be up to the DA and the court, not the angry mob with pitchforks or the cowardly script kids on 4chan.
Vigilante justice is terrible but I don't see anything else doing the job; it may be a last resort but I think our globalist-corporatist society is At That Point. The people with connections and resources own the politicians (all over the world) who make the laws. Besides, even if one country does everything right, the parasites in charge of the world can just move their money around.
I've been saying since the late '90s that health insurance executives should be publicly exposed when they murder people, and I still feel that way. If the courts were actually cracking down on those fuckers, then I'd say that vigilante justice is unwarranted; but how many health-insurance murderers are in prison? The fuckers kill 45,000 per year (a 9/11 every 24 days) and I don't know of one who has gone to prison.
Why do we tear the shit out of two Middle Eastern nations (one of which had nothing to do with it) over 3,000 dead but allow health insurers to kill half a million over that same decade and not even give them personal civil liability?
All societies tend toward Feudalism given enough time. The rent seekers control everything, and the masses surrender their liberty in exchange for security. History has demonstrated this countless times, which is why the Bill of Rights enshrined the right of the public to form militias to protect their own rights (the original 2nd Amendment).
Unfortunately, over two centuries the rent seekers have won again, so a reboot is required. How to initiate and sustain a successful reboot is the tricky part.
I sense from your writings that you are increasingly frustrated with the current state of affairs. I just want to emphasize that you aren't the only one, and if you were to formalize your dissent into an actionable movement, many would support you. The time may have come for the Technocrat to take his place on the world stage...
It's not a technical problem. It's a moral/ethical problem where most the long term solutions that would work are very dark in the short term.
We are irrational sheep. As long as the "average" person has their "average" basic life needs met, some entertainment and some hope of a better life, this shit will continue.
A true "correction" would be bloody and very destructive, since no one in power is going to give up power willingly. They are more likely to go to the extreme and "cull" the masses to reduce what they see as the "problem".
That is a very narrow solution space you are considering. I can think of a dozen non-violent proposals which would involve nothing more than fiscal policy changes. For example: flat tax and basic income for all, such that there is no special treatment of corporations over individual entities. No tax breaks, no loopholes.
This would work best if implemented with direct democracy and a program of lean government held liable to be fully transparent on all spending.
A blogger who goes slightly more in depth with a proposal of this idea can be found here: http://www.naturalfinance.net/2013/04/improving-economy-by-e...
Of course the currently vested interests would fight this to the grave, but there is a point at which the people will no longer suffer the reign of Feudal lords (I predict that to be about 40% unemployment, or 70% youth unemployment).
I don't think putting the blame squarely on the managers is a wise thing to do. Bad managers are symptoms to larger problems of society. A better goal in this case is getting people informed about the truths and the back stories of our nice electronics and where they came from, who made them, in what conditions, etc.
I'd be inclined to give direct managers a pass, in most cases. Chances are, the guy's direct boss is working in the same horrible conditions as he had.
I still think that this man must be avenged, possibly many degrees up the chain. Where in the hierarchy that happens, I don't have the information that would be needed to call that shot.
A better goal in this case is getting people informed about the truths and the back stories of our nice electronic sand where they came from, who made them, in what conditions, etc.
I agree. And I'd like to see alternatives. I'm glad that China is industrializing. That's a really good thing. However, I'd prefer the option to pay $200 more for a device made in humane conditions.
I still think that this man must be avenged, possibly many degrees up the chain.
Why must he be avenged? I mean, that is pretty rather strong language there. Why shouldn't his superiors just be subject to an investigation and held accountable for specific wrongs and oversights?
Michael, there's an order and law to be respected, and I think indeed you'll only find success in the fights of injustices if you walk in an avenue already established (know that this world will by and large resist most all progressive and novel ideas, you either have to disguise your ideas in sweetly packaged trojan horse forms, or have yourself backed by immense power to see any substantial change effected).
However, I'd prefer the option to pay $200 more for a device made in humane conditions.
Me too. We've gotta find some way to let the world know this.
May I have your e-mail address please? I'd like to speak to you about some things.
Michael, there's an order and law to be respected
Is there? The people in charge of this society have made themselves above all laws and order.
If murder were truly illegal for everyone, explain health insurance. Why do rich people get to hide behind their companies when they let people die for profit? Highly inconsistent, that is.
I think indeed you'll only find success in the fights of injustices if you walk in an avenue already established
Well, I have mixed feelings about that. Nonviolent overthrow of an oppressor is always better than the violent kind, but violence is better than doing nothing and letting an evil elite reign.
If there's a nonviolent way to get rid of the current global elite, I'd love to hear it. Technology is supposed to deliver on that; we don't "overthrow" them, we just outperform them. In practice, though, they seem to have redefined the rules to suit them (see: VC-istan) and keep us "in our place".
Unfortunately, I sense that the majority of HN readers are still in the idealistic phase of their political views. As in, they believe in the ideals of a nation and not its realities. It can be very difficult, even traumatizing, for a person to transition from one to the other. Here is Aaron Swartz's experience: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/epiphany
You can only tackle a problem once you acknowledge it exists. Unfortunately, I have yet to see that critical mass on HN regarding the issues you are passionate about. Until that happens, you will just be seen as a pessimistic contrarian by such folk.
I recommend that anyone who fiercely disagrees, or is confused by, Michael's viewpoints on this issue to read Chomsky's Understanding Power.