The longer this criminal terror gang continues to operate with impunity, the more we need to be thoroughly documenting individuals who will need to face justice for our society to heal when we eventually get our Nuremberg moment. In this case, at least whomever is signing off on this deliberately malevolent escalation of force, including up their autocratic chain of command, whomever tortures or kills using these devices, plus whomever is managing their manufacture/sale (graft being only real goal here beyond performative cruelty). Everyone involved knows what they are doing is at odds with the western values of liberty and human rights our country was founded upon and made great by - they simply don't care due to whatever grievance they have with the system (legitimate or not). Which is why when flagrant criminality happens within their ranks and turns into a national issue, they double down rather than taking a minute to do any sort of reflection.
And so - no clemency, no amnesty, no "just following orders", no "my orders were misinterpreted", no mass pardons, no slinking back into the shadows holding on to their "lost cause". Criminal responsibility, period. Government jackboots executing people might be considered just fun "anti-woke" entertainment in 2026, but it needs to be known that the winds will eventually shift.
It's cute that you seem to think anyone will ever be held accountable ever again. Anyone who's studied history knows what direction this is going to go and the chances of their being a Nuremburg Trail II are very, very slim.
It's not a matter of "cute" and thinking that Nuremberg-style accountability will definitively happen, but rather that if we are going to fight for our liberty then we must draw clear lines in the sand about things like morality and values. This isn't merely some political disagreement over how to implement policy that effects shared values, but rather a political party being wholly taken over by malevolent anti-American interests and convincing its constituents to shred their own morality. The need for moral lines in the sand applies across the whole spectrum - all the way from the edgelords still simping for the cucked Republican party because line goes up or trolling makes them feel powerful or whatever, to the would-be opposition party who needs to know that a message of "you have to vote for us because we're less bad" is woefully insufficient.
Unless you have a practical nuts-and-bolts solution for dealing with the money and connections of orgs such as the Heritage Foundation and the various Tech Oligarchs pushing fascism (e.g. Palintir) your 'resistance' will mean fuck-all, sorry.
The ballot box doesn't matter and the bullet box is irrelevant in the face of ICE and the militarizing of the police force.
There's no getting off this train, whether you surrender or fight changes nothing.
You are referring to ICE as a criminal terror gang, but they perform a very important function of enforcing immigration law. Anyone who comes illegally to our country is committing a crime.
I don’t agree with some things that they do, but what is the alternative? Just let people enter freely and not do anything about it?
ICE only exists because of mass illegal immigration.
You are referring to ICE as a criminal terror gang, but they perform a very important function of enforcing immigration law
Sure, the point is that these two things are not tied. In fact they're actually sympathetic to one another - if the job of ICE is to uphold the law, then their mission should include upholding all law and order - not merely enforcing within their scope while running roughshod on everything outside of it.
I don’t agree with some things that they do, but what is the alternative?
Read your question again. There ARE clearly other alternatives besides "let people enter freely", right? For example, institutional accountability. When you have a case like Jonathan Ross imparting his own agenda of premeditated execution as a summary punishment for disobedience, it's straightforward to separate that act from the overall mission of the agency, right? There is no conflict for firing and prosecuting Ross for how he personally chose to act directly contrary to written agency policy, while continuing to have the rest of ICE enforce immigration law.
But rather than working to keep the agency and its members accountable under the law, we witness the exact opposite framed as part of the all-encompassing "culture war", seemingly to distract from the administration's poor performance on this topic and elsewhere. This type of poor leadership drives rot in organizations, leading us to the point we've gotten to where ICE itself seemingly needs to be disbanded and its desired function (which I agree with you is mostly sensible) performed by a replacement agency - built up person-by-person to make sure agents aren't bringing their own personal grudges and lawlessness.
Furthermore, if you truly do want immigration law to be enforced, then it actually becomes more important to adopt this stance. It's taken over two decades to finally build up the political will to enforce immigration law contra to the open wishes of big business that wants cheap labor. What is happening right now is squandering that political will as the average person sees it merely being used to enable a group of unaccountable violent thugs who aren't even that effective at the political goals.
Comments
The longer this criminal terror gang continues to operate with impunity, the more we need to be thoroughly documenting individuals who will need to face justice for our society to heal when we eventually get our Nuremberg moment. In this case, at least whomever is signing off on this deliberately malevolent escalation of force, including up their autocratic chain of command, whomever tortures or kills using these devices, plus whomever is managing their manufacture/sale (graft being only real goal here beyond performative cruelty). Everyone involved knows what they are doing is at odds with the western values of liberty and human rights our country was founded upon and made great by - they simply don't care due to whatever grievance they have with the system (legitimate or not). Which is why when flagrant criminality happens within their ranks and turns into a national issue, they double down rather than taking a minute to do any sort of reflection.
And so - no clemency, no amnesty, no "just following orders", no "my orders were misinterpreted", no mass pardons, no slinking back into the shadows holding on to their "lost cause". Criminal responsibility, period. Government jackboots executing people might be considered just fun "anti-woke" entertainment in 2026, but it needs to be known that the winds will eventually shift.
It's cute that you seem to think anyone will ever be held accountable ever again. Anyone who's studied history knows what direction this is going to go and the chances of their being a Nuremburg Trail II are very, very slim.
It's not a matter of "cute" and thinking that Nuremberg-style accountability will definitively happen, but rather that if we are going to fight for our liberty then we must draw clear lines in the sand about things like morality and values. This isn't merely some political disagreement over how to implement policy that effects shared values, but rather a political party being wholly taken over by malevolent anti-American interests and convincing its constituents to shred their own morality. The need for moral lines in the sand applies across the whole spectrum - all the way from the edgelords still simping for the cucked Republican party because line goes up or trolling makes them feel powerful or whatever, to the would-be opposition party who needs to know that a message of "you have to vote for us because we're less bad" is woefully insufficient.
Unless you have a practical nuts-and-bolts solution for dealing with the money and connections of orgs such as the Heritage Foundation and the various Tech Oligarchs pushing fascism (e.g. Palintir) your 'resistance' will mean fuck-all, sorry.
The ballot box doesn't matter and the bullet box is irrelevant in the face of ICE and the militarizing of the police force.
There's no getting off this train, whether you surrender or fight changes nothing.
If it goes that far, I imagine more a guns-and-bullets solution pushing on one side with a larger, more peaceful resistance pushing from the other.
Only if you view it as an all-out war, which it would never be. Threat being enough works both ways.
I have been suggesting that we hold the trials in Appomattox, for symbolic reasons.
How about encouraging people to not go to other countries illegally?
What specifically are you referring to? I don't see how that relates to anything in my comment.
You are referring to ICE as a criminal terror gang, but they perform a very important function of enforcing immigration law. Anyone who comes illegally to our country is committing a crime.
I don’t agree with some things that they do, but what is the alternative? Just let people enter freely and not do anything about it?
ICE only exists because of mass illegal immigration.
Sure, the point is that these two things are not tied. In fact they're actually sympathetic to one another - if the job of ICE is to uphold the law, then their mission should include upholding all law and order - not merely enforcing within their scope while running roughshod on everything outside of it.
Read your question again. There ARE clearly other alternatives besides "let people enter freely", right? For example, institutional accountability. When you have a case like Jonathan Ross imparting his own agenda of premeditated execution as a summary punishment for disobedience, it's straightforward to separate that act from the overall mission of the agency, right? There is no conflict for firing and prosecuting Ross for how he personally chose to act directly contrary to written agency policy, while continuing to have the rest of ICE enforce immigration law.
But rather than working to keep the agency and its members accountable under the law, we witness the exact opposite framed as part of the all-encompassing "culture war", seemingly to distract from the administration's poor performance on this topic and elsewhere. This type of poor leadership drives rot in organizations, leading us to the point we've gotten to where ICE itself seemingly needs to be disbanded and its desired function (which I agree with you is mostly sensible) performed by a replacement agency - built up person-by-person to make sure agents aren't bringing their own personal grudges and lawlessness.
Furthermore, if you truly do want immigration law to be enforced, then it actually becomes more important to adopt this stance. It's taken over two decades to finally build up the political will to enforce immigration law contra to the open wishes of big business that wants cheap labor. What is happening right now is squandering that political will as the average person sees it merely being used to enable a group of unaccountable violent thugs who aren't even that effective at the political goals.