This post appears to simply restate what it attempts to argue against (niche ideas and the previous brainstorming post).
Niches are markets. Dog walkers probably could use some kind of SaaS app. Restaurants desperately need better websites. And if you have a passion or (especially) deep knowledge of those industries/markets/niches, there's nothing wrong with experimenting with ideas.
No one is arguing against doing market research–in fact, multiple people stated that as the first step in the HN post mentioned. And I doubt the OP on that thread was saying "make some ideas up out of the blue with no basis in industry knowledge". C'mon.
I was the OP from the other thread. callmeed understands what my intent was with the other post. Sadly, I either wrote up the post poorly, or the method of asking outright on forums is a bad idea.
Coming from a business background, I just assumed that any idea people would put out there would have been small solutions to small problems... not "sitcom startups", products with no market, or funny stabs at combining nouns with an airbnbnb business model. Perhaps I was wrong. Really the only thing I was looking for were problems that could potentially be solved with minimal capital, and only 1 or 2 people.
Maybe looking for small problems, solutions, and actionable ideas can't be done on internet forums... It didn't seem too unthinkable for me to imagine someone like Patrick responding to my initial post with something like this:
"You know what? Some teachers have approached me to build a Bingo Card Creator, and are willing to pay for it. I may be able to introduce you to them. Personally, I have zero interest in pursuing this, but maybe you do. Obviously, you will want to do your own market research, but you likely have at least a few sales. The market is niche, and I am pursuing something a little bigger that interests me more, but it could be worth a look for you. A sweet bonus is that this can probably be executed by a single person."
Interestingly, Paul himself seems to have started a company that might be earning him money and could have originated in that thread.
I was looking for ideas like Posters for verticals. Maybe Paul didn't want to start doing posters for microbreweries, but knew that people wanted them. Is any sharing of small business ideas completely useless?
Yes he went on to validate the idea, knowing that spending half a year building an app or product and trying to market it prior to validation isn't very intelligent, but I thought that was implied.
Niches aren't markets, they're demographics… statement of facts, essentially, which may be incidental or immaterial. A job title doesn't tell you about beliefs, aspirations, willingness to pay for things, sense of community, etc.
Do dog walkers hang out together online in a place you can identify? If not, how will you learn about them in a way that's natural & not manipulated by their feeling of social obligation or desire to be nice to you and positive about your ideas?
Do they hang out together? Do they talk to each other? Do they spread information on products they love, do they help each other and recommend things? Do they care about being better dog walkers, saving time or money?
If not, they share demographics in common, but they're not a market in the sense that I teach in my class.
For a niche to be a bonafide market, for the purposes of creating & selling a product, there needs to be a solid segment which thinks and behaves in the same (pro-commerce) ways.
"niche" is simply shorthand for "niche market" IMO [1]. So it very much is a market and not a demographic. Without delving into a battle of semantics, I don't think either of these posts referred to a demographic of "people who are employed as dog walkers" ... I read them as the niche market of "people who own dog walking businesses."
I cannot answer all those questions about dog walking business owners because I am not one nor do I have insider knowledge about that business.
>> Do they care about being better dog walkers, saving time or money?
I'll go out on a limb here and say "YES", if you own a dog walking business, you care about saving time or money (or making more money).
That being said, I can answer all those questions about other niches (photographers, hackers, restaurant owners, churches, etc.) because I either am one or know that market. So, that gives me a pretty good starting point for identifying needs, doing deeper research, and then creating a product that meets those needs and that niche market is willing to pay for.
That is, in my opinion, what both posts were saying (in different ways).
Comments
This post appears to simply restate what it attempts to argue against (niche ideas and the previous brainstorming post).
Niches are markets. Dog walkers probably could use some kind of SaaS app. Restaurants desperately need better websites. And if you have a passion or (especially) deep knowledge of those industries/markets/niches, there's nothing wrong with experimenting with ideas.
No one is arguing against doing market research–in fact, multiple people stated that as the first step in the HN post mentioned. And I doubt the OP on that thread was saying "make some ideas up out of the blue with no basis in industry knowledge". C'mon.
[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4917661
I was the OP from the other thread. callmeed understands what my intent was with the other post. Sadly, I either wrote up the post poorly, or the method of asking outright on forums is a bad idea.
Coming from a business background, I just assumed that any idea people would put out there would have been small solutions to small problems... not "sitcom startups", products with no market, or funny stabs at combining nouns with an airbnbnb business model. Perhaps I was wrong. Really the only thing I was looking for were problems that could potentially be solved with minimal capital, and only 1 or 2 people.
Maybe looking for small problems, solutions, and actionable ideas can't be done on internet forums... It didn't seem too unthinkable for me to imagine someone like Patrick responding to my initial post with something like this:
"You know what? Some teachers have approached me to build a Bingo Card Creator, and are willing to pay for it. I may be able to introduce you to them. Personally, I have zero interest in pursuing this, but maybe you do. Obviously, you will want to do your own market research, but you likely have at least a few sales. The market is niche, and I am pursuing something a little bigger that interests me more, but it could be worth a look for you. A sweet bonus is that this can probably be executed by a single person."
Interestingly, Paul himself seems to have started a company that might be earning him money and could have originated in that thread.
I was looking for ideas like Posters for verticals. Maybe Paul didn't want to start doing posters for microbreweries, but knew that people wanted them. Is any sharing of small business ideas completely useless?
Yes he went on to validate the idea, knowing that spending half a year building an app or product and trying to market it prior to validation isn't very intelligent, but I thought that was implied.
I'm glad you posted this for clarification, but I thought your original thread was fairly clear (hopefully my reply there made sense too).
FWIW, I don't think it was wrong to post that question here. You just never know what kind of response questions like that will get.
Also, I apologize for not adding more ideas (been traveling). Drop me an email and I can share more.
Niches aren't markets, they're demographics… statement of facts, essentially, which may be incidental or immaterial. A job title doesn't tell you about beliefs, aspirations, willingness to pay for things, sense of community, etc.
Do dog walkers hang out together online in a place you can identify? If not, how will you learn about them in a way that's natural & not manipulated by their feeling of social obligation or desire to be nice to you and positive about your ideas?
Do they hang out together? Do they talk to each other? Do they spread information on products they love, do they help each other and recommend things? Do they care about being better dog walkers, saving time or money?
If not, they share demographics in common, but they're not a market in the sense that I teach in my class.
For a niche to be a bonafide market, for the purposes of creating & selling a product, there needs to be a solid segment which thinks and behaves in the same (pro-commerce) ways.
"niche" is simply shorthand for "niche market" IMO [1]. So it very much is a market and not a demographic. Without delving into a battle of semantics, I don't think either of these posts referred to a demographic of "people who are employed as dog walkers" ... I read them as the niche market of "people who own dog walking businesses."
I cannot answer all those questions about dog walking business owners because I am not one nor do I have insider knowledge about that business.
>> Do they care about being better dog walkers, saving time or money?
I'll go out on a limb here and say "YES", if you own a dog walking business, you care about saving time or money (or making more money).
That being said, I can answer all those questions about other niches (photographers, hackers, restaurant owners, churches, etc.) because I either am one or know that market. So, that gives me a pretty good starting point for identifying needs, doing deeper research, and then creating a product that meets those needs and that niche market is willing to pay for.
That is, in my opinion, what both posts were saying (in different ways).
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niche_market