I was reading an article in an OLD print magazine published in the year 1900 (probably around when that picture was taken). It spoke of the increase of college students in the U.S. and made some comments on how past countries had suffered because of too many college graduates:
"There can hardly be too large an attendance at our colleges so long as the sturdy common sense of American life keeps its balance — the common sense that forbids even an effort to make a distinct "educated " class which when "educated" is unwilling to do the common tasks at which young men must first try their mettle. In Germany there is a surplus of scholars who are worth nothing to the community. They might have been good craftsmen, but university training has left them unwilling to do the common work of the world."
Has the U.S. lost that "sturdy common sense" recently? Too many degrees are handed out (a large part thanks to for-profits) to those who probably shouldn't have a degree. If they were to attend a vocational school or become an apprentice instead of college, college degrees wouldn't be watered down by those who don't even need them, meanwhile colleges would have a student body of only those fit to be there.
I am a mathematics professor, and I have the opportunity to work at what I love. Why should I forego this to instead do "the common work of the world"?
If the only paying job available to me were digging ditches, then I would do it happily and well. Presumably the same for most people. But this comment doesn't seem to describe a choice that anyone actually faces.
Recently, a fairly large number of people where unemployed for 6 months to 2 years which where receiving unemployment checks significantly above minimum wage. There was no point in them being ditch diggers as they would have earned a negative wage by doing so. Arguably, if most of these people had spent 20 hours a week doing manual labor they would have been far heather and even more motivated.
Now, there where plenty of reasons to set things up like this, but it also distorts what people thought was reasonable 100 years ago.
Yes, because in the construction boom that followed the Global Financial Crisis, foreman would love to hire overweight middle aged accountants to dig their ditches.
If you are a mathematics professor than your education got you a job worthwhile to the community. Many people get degrees which have not prepared them to contribute because they can't find a job that matches their qualifications.
I went to school with plenty of people who were there because thats just what you do. They partied too much and studied too little and now they are overqualified and underemployed. The fact that you can be overqualified to me is the loss of "sturdy common sense", not everyone is as centered as you appear to be and I think you overestimate more than a few people.
> They partied too much and studied too little and now they are overqualified and underemployed.
If they studied to little they are hardly overqualified. Someone in the position you describe seems to be at a point where their own perception of their qualification, based on the fact that they did somehow get a degree, is inflated compared to their qualifications as perceived by potential employers.
"Overqualification" is a strange term anyway. It's not that a potential employer wouldn't want someone better than strictly necessary for a job. It seems to have more to do with some people expecting a certain "baseline" of job offers once they have a degree on paper, despite their actual qualification perhaps not warranting this.
“I ask every American to commit to at least one year or more of higher education or career training,” Mr. Obama said in February 2009. “This can be community college or a four-year school, vocational training or an apprenticeship. But whatever the training may be, every American will need to get more than a high school diploma.”
The problem is I haven't seen any concrete initiative to do such a thing. That being said, the system is ripe for it's inevitable crash. Which in my opinion is a good thing. What the US needs is to crash and hurt. That will ultimately force change.
My impression of my country, the US, is that we don't change with pain, we double down, so we can convince ourselves that we aren't wrong. Education methods ineffective? Assign more class hours and homework. War not going well? Pour more money and blood into it.
We don't have an education crisis and improvement cycle coming, we have a crisis and "surge" coming.
Degrees are useless. It's turned into a piece of paper that everybody has to have.
These days having a degree doesn't mean you actually know anything about the field that you have studied in. It just means that you have a degree thus you are allowed to get a job that doesn't require manual labor. This isn't just America, it's everywhere.
What it means is you were smart enough to get into college and you persevered enough to finish your degree. The first part is critical, and why degrees from academically exclusive colleges are worth more than others.
If the first part is critical, then we should just go back to IQ testing job applicants instead of wasting $100,000 and 4-5 years to skip class and cheer at football games. Unfortunately this practice was banned by the Supreme Court as discriminatory.
Yep. Millions of kids have been turned into debt slaves by Griggs v Duke Power. But it's not just the courts - elite colleges collude to suck the absolute last dollar from every student, and Congress refuses to do anything about it.
Hasn't it always been that way? Human primates want to impress other human primates, so they get themselves titles. Doctor beats Master, Master beats Bachelor, Bachelor beats Drop-Out, Drop-Out beats Secondary School Graduate. Higher Education is part of a schooling system designed to perpetuate a stratified society. Graduating demonstrates agreement.
There'll always be someone to point out that such degrees are necessary for higher(!) degrees which are necessary for academia. While the myth that we have a shortage of PhDs and scientists - combined with a huge portion of academics retiring - continues, it is a very profitable excuse to get more public funding.
But that's okay, we have plenty of money to spend on all kinds of research - we're aiming at a lofty goal! But the discomforting bit is when the majority of the graduates regard everyday-life mundane stuffs are below them, that all high is in the textbooks, and simultaneously have no urge to do something (themselves or earthly people value) instead of just "learning".
Comments
I was reading an article in an OLD print magazine published in the year 1900 (probably around when that picture was taken). It spoke of the increase of college students in the U.S. and made some comments on how past countries had suffered because of too many college graduates:
"There can hardly be too large an attendance at our colleges so long as the sturdy common sense of American life keeps its balance — the common sense that forbids even an effort to make a distinct "educated " class which when "educated" is unwilling to do the common tasks at which young men must first try their mettle. In Germany there is a surplus of scholars who are worth nothing to the community. They might have been good craftsmen, but university training has left them unwilling to do the common work of the world."
Has the U.S. lost that "sturdy common sense" recently? Too many degrees are handed out (a large part thanks to for-profits) to those who probably shouldn't have a degree. If they were to attend a vocational school or become an apprentice instead of college, college degrees wouldn't be watered down by those who don't even need them, meanwhile colleges would have a student body of only those fit to be there.
What exactly is this "sturdy common sense"?
I am a mathematics professor, and I have the opportunity to work at what I love. Why should I forego this to instead do "the common work of the world"?
If the only paying job available to me were digging ditches, then I would do it happily and well. Presumably the same for most people. But this comment doesn't seem to describe a choice that anyone actually faces.
Recently, a fairly large number of people where unemployed for 6 months to 2 years which where receiving unemployment checks significantly above minimum wage. There was no point in them being ditch diggers as they would have earned a negative wage by doing so. Arguably, if most of these people had spent 20 hours a week doing manual labor they would have been far heather and even more motivated.
Now, there where plenty of reasons to set things up like this, but it also distorts what people thought was reasonable 100 years ago.
Yes, because in the construction boom that followed the Global Financial Crisis, foreman would love to hire overweight middle aged accountants to dig their ditches.
If you are a mathematics professor than your education got you a job worthwhile to the community. Many people get degrees which have not prepared them to contribute because they can't find a job that matches their qualifications.
I went to school with plenty of people who were there because thats just what you do. They partied too much and studied too little and now they are overqualified and underemployed. The fact that you can be overqualified to me is the loss of "sturdy common sense", not everyone is as centered as you appear to be and I think you overestimate more than a few people.
> They partied too much and studied too little and now they are overqualified and underemployed.
If they studied to little they are hardly overqualified. Someone in the position you describe seems to be at a point where their own perception of their qualification, based on the fact that they did somehow get a degree, is inflated compared to their qualifications as perceived by potential employers.
"Overqualification" is a strange term anyway. It's not that a potential employer wouldn't want someone better than strictly necessary for a job. It seems to have more to do with some people expecting a certain "baseline" of job offers once they have a degree on paper, despite their actual qualification perhaps not warranting this.
Obama made the following statement in 2009:[1]
“I ask every American to commit to at least one year or more of higher education or career training,” Mr. Obama said in February 2009. “This can be community college or a four-year school, vocational training or an apprenticeship. But whatever the training may be, every American will need to get more than a high school diploma.”
The problem is I haven't seen any concrete initiative to do such a thing. That being said, the system is ripe for it's inevitable crash. Which in my opinion is a good thing. What the US needs is to crash and hurt. That will ultimately force change.
[1] - http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/27/obama-defends-...
My impression of my country, the US, is that we don't change with pain, we double down, so we can convince ourselves that we aren't wrong. Education methods ineffective? Assign more class hours and homework. War not going well? Pour more money and blood into it.
We don't have an education crisis and improvement cycle coming, we have a crisis and "surge" coming.
Why don't we just make high schools better?
Degrees are useless. It's turned into a piece of paper that everybody has to have.
These days having a degree doesn't mean you actually know anything about the field that you have studied in. It just means that you have a degree thus you are allowed to get a job that doesn't require manual labor. This isn't just America, it's everywhere.
What it means is you were smart enough to get into college and you persevered enough to finish your degree. The first part is critical, and why degrees from academically exclusive colleges are worth more than others.
If the first part is critical, then we should just go back to IQ testing job applicants instead of wasting $100,000 and 4-5 years to skip class and cheer at football games. Unfortunately this practice was banned by the Supreme Court as discriminatory.
Yep. Millions of kids have been turned into debt slaves by Griggs v Duke Power. But it's not just the courts - elite colleges collude to suck the absolute last dollar from every student, and Congress refuses to do anything about it.
Hasn't it always been that way? Human primates want to impress other human primates, so they get themselves titles. Doctor beats Master, Master beats Bachelor, Bachelor beats Drop-Out, Drop-Out beats Secondary School Graduate. Higher Education is part of a schooling system designed to perpetuate a stratified society. Graduating demonstrates agreement.
I would love to know the source of this quote. Any chance you have it available?
Sure, it's titled "The World's Work" and I guess it's sort of "The Economist" of its day. Here's a Google Books link (the article on education is on page 21) http://books.google.com/books/about/The_World_s_work.html?id...
Thanks for the link. Very interesting stuff.
There'll always be someone to point out that such degrees are necessary for higher(!) degrees which are necessary for academia. While the myth that we have a shortage of PhDs and scientists - combined with a huge portion of academics retiring - continues, it is a very profitable excuse to get more public funding.
But that's okay, we have plenty of money to spend on all kinds of research - we're aiming at a lofty goal! But the discomforting bit is when the majority of the graduates regard everyday-life mundane stuffs are below them, that all high is in the textbooks, and simultaneously have no urge to do something (themselves or earthly people value) instead of just "learning".