The popularity of D&D with people on the spectrum is similar to the popularity of fantasy/sci-fi lit and games and movies for the same population group, and for the same reasons (ime): technical abstractions and a strong focus on "systems" ('logical' magic systems are valorized over 'illogical' ones), often simplistic characters with very clear telegraphed and consistent archetypes, plots with heavy focus on simpler good vs. evil conflict, more chances to identify with non-human characters (a vehicle for expressing divergent thought processes/behaviors).
The difference maker seems to be that well done D&D games, with good DMs, force the players to interact with each other and problem solve together. Which, to me, suggests there's nothing particularly special about D&D beside it being something that people on the spectrum like --- what is special is the social interaction and problem solving. It would be interesting to see how gender plays into further studies. In my experience, autism in women can often look quite different than autism in men (generalizing of course).
The other major difference is that table top gaming is a constrained environment where one is allowed to act socially different than normal, and mistakes at the table are left at the table.
Players are allowed to play someone with a completely different personality, and spend extended amounts of time stepping into someone else's head and thinking how someone different would act.
There aren't any other situations in life where you can take someone socially awkward and say "ok now act really charismatic" and then, w/o judgement, that person spends 2 or 3 hours a week for months on end trying to figure out what a charismatic person would say and do.
I challenge the notion that autistic people seek more logical systems or simpler moral situations. Imo the day to day interactions of people and the world views they ascribe to are far simpler than many complex games or fantasy/scifi themes and or stories. In my experience, i have an excess of thinking around every single thing so seeing that complexity and nuance captured in media or a game, and in people willing to dive into those intricacies, makes me feel seen.
I don't think simpler is the correct word, but more understandable.
As in, given an end state you can trace back the series of events and actions to how you got there. So for a character in a movie or in a story or in a DND campaign, you can look at where they're at, and then trace back and find out how they got there. Even in pretty complicated movies, because the audience needs to know and understand what's going on.
But people aren't like that generally, because you don't have enough knowledge typically and you don't necessarily know why people are the way they are. Feelings can come up for no reason, or for a reason you can't identify. They can even come 40 years ago, perhaps their inception when you were a baby.
You talk about "excess of thinking" and complexity, and I think this sort of points to that.
Movies, characters, DND can be rationalized. Humans, their feelings, and their actions, often can't. Not because they're more complex, but because people aren't rationale beings. Most people can't pinpoint where their own feelings stem from and it takes years of therapy to find that out - let alone the feelings of others. And, even worse, the feelings of those you don't know well.
That's interesting. In my experience with people on the spectrum, obviously acknowledging that the spectrum is so broad and inclusive at this point as to be almost meaningless in terms of specificity, they really, really, want logical systems and struggle with ambiguity, whether that be in moral, social, or fictional, situations. Clear cut distinctions between wrong and right, and these media properties themselves, give them an almost joyous sense of ease and confidence. It can be very personal for them.
Fantasy and sci-fi themes in media can be complex, but, in my experience, the people I know on the spectrum are far more drawn to fare of a particular kind: systems focused and morally clear-cut. Complexity for them is often more about scale. They'll pick a Brandon Sanderson book/series over a Gene Wolfe book (or Peake's Gormenghast) or a much more thematically and emotionally rich and complicated realist story like Proust's In Search of Lost Time (comparable in a way to the giant fantasy epics with multi volumes). They'll pick an enormous space opera over Ursula K Le Guin's The Dispossessed.
But these are all generalizations. Manifestations of autism can look and be wildly different.
Another thing that I've found seems to unite a lot of ND people liking fantasy and such is the escapism, being able to imagine yourself in a "better" world where weird people are accepted and liked, and especially with roleplaying games you can almost literally be in that world, making a difference and feeling like you matter
Comments
The popularity of D&D with people on the spectrum is similar to the popularity of fantasy/sci-fi lit and games and movies for the same population group, and for the same reasons (ime): technical abstractions and a strong focus on "systems" ('logical' magic systems are valorized over 'illogical' ones), often simplistic characters with very clear telegraphed and consistent archetypes, plots with heavy focus on simpler good vs. evil conflict, more chances to identify with non-human characters (a vehicle for expressing divergent thought processes/behaviors).
The difference maker seems to be that well done D&D games, with good DMs, force the players to interact with each other and problem solve together. Which, to me, suggests there's nothing particularly special about D&D beside it being something that people on the spectrum like --- what is special is the social interaction and problem solving. It would be interesting to see how gender plays into further studies. In my experience, autism in women can often look quite different than autism in men (generalizing of course).
The other major difference is that table top gaming is a constrained environment where one is allowed to act socially different than normal, and mistakes at the table are left at the table.
Players are allowed to play someone with a completely different personality, and spend extended amounts of time stepping into someone else's head and thinking how someone different would act.
There aren't any other situations in life where you can take someone socially awkward and say "ok now act really charismatic" and then, w/o judgement, that person spends 2 or 3 hours a week for months on end trying to figure out what a charismatic person would say and do.
Acting is very similar and has a similarly motivated crowd fwiw.
I challenge the notion that autistic people seek more logical systems or simpler moral situations. Imo the day to day interactions of people and the world views they ascribe to are far simpler than many complex games or fantasy/scifi themes and or stories. In my experience, i have an excess of thinking around every single thing so seeing that complexity and nuance captured in media or a game, and in people willing to dive into those intricacies, makes me feel seen.
I don't think simpler is the correct word, but more understandable.
As in, given an end state you can trace back the series of events and actions to how you got there. So for a character in a movie or in a story or in a DND campaign, you can look at where they're at, and then trace back and find out how they got there. Even in pretty complicated movies, because the audience needs to know and understand what's going on.
But people aren't like that generally, because you don't have enough knowledge typically and you don't necessarily know why people are the way they are. Feelings can come up for no reason, or for a reason you can't identify. They can even come 40 years ago, perhaps their inception when you were a baby.
You talk about "excess of thinking" and complexity, and I think this sort of points to that.
Movies, characters, DND can be rationalized. Humans, their feelings, and their actions, often can't. Not because they're more complex, but because people aren't rationale beings. Most people can't pinpoint where their own feelings stem from and it takes years of therapy to find that out - let alone the feelings of others. And, even worse, the feelings of those you don't know well.
That's interesting. In my experience with people on the spectrum, obviously acknowledging that the spectrum is so broad and inclusive at this point as to be almost meaningless in terms of specificity, they really, really, want logical systems and struggle with ambiguity, whether that be in moral, social, or fictional, situations. Clear cut distinctions between wrong and right, and these media properties themselves, give them an almost joyous sense of ease and confidence. It can be very personal for them.
Fantasy and sci-fi themes in media can be complex, but, in my experience, the people I know on the spectrum are far more drawn to fare of a particular kind: systems focused and morally clear-cut. Complexity for them is often more about scale. They'll pick a Brandon Sanderson book/series over a Gene Wolfe book (or Peake's Gormenghast) or a much more thematically and emotionally rich and complicated realist story like Proust's In Search of Lost Time (comparable in a way to the giant fantasy epics with multi volumes). They'll pick an enormous space opera over Ursula K Le Guin's The Dispossessed.
But these are all generalizations. Manifestations of autism can look and be wildly different.
Another thing that I've found seems to unite a lot of ND people liking fantasy and such is the escapism, being able to imagine yourself in a "better" world where weird people are accepted and liked, and especially with roleplaying games you can almost literally be in that world, making a difference and feeling like you matter