You are right about the shift in Turkey's trade to the middle east. Turkey still exports something like 25% - 40% of its total exports to EU countries (not sure about exact % right now). If the EU imposed trade sanctions on Turkey, it would be hard to argue that there would be no effect.
How can you even compare holocaust denial laws to what muslim countries do? You think denying people the right to disagree with the state or condemning them to a life with their rapist or torturing a man AND taking away the right of people to deny a historical fact are the same thing? I don't see why the holocaust denial law is necessary but I don't see it as being oppressive to rights that should be fundamental!
Religious headscarves should be banned for the same reason slavery is. Just because a slave would never complain to law enforcement agencies and does not see the injustice in his life because he has been brainwashed and accepts his fate does not mean the state should not enforce his rights. Have you even seen the plight of women in an orthodox muslim family? Would you consider a muslim women who only does what she is "allowed" as your equal? Banning the hijab was a good move - it is a symbol of oppression.
There you go with the 'muslim countries' thing again. It's not like you can lump a whole load of different countries into one basket and make sweeping generalisations.
"How can you even compare holocaust denial laws to what muslim countries do?" - Very easily. The holocaust was over 65 years ago. The perpetrators of this egregious act are mostly dead. The victims of this egregious act are mostly dead. The modern German of today had nothing to do with the holocaust. Their mother and father had nothing to do with the holocaust. What does making holocaust denial do other than prohibit a form of dissent? Does it bring people back to life? No, it does not. Does it stop it from happening again? Just because a crime is unmentionable does not mean that it would not happen (and the holocaust is not the only genocide, nor the most efficient one, there have been many more before and since).
When you remove the right to say fuck, you remove the right to say fuck the government. In Germany any debate on the extent of the holocaust is stifled due to the law, the same (but opposite case) as it is in Turkey with respect to the atrocities referred to by some as the Armenian Genocide. In both cases the law is wrong and stifles free speech and people go to jail[1][2] for dissent against it.
> Religious headscarves should be banned for the same reason slavery is.
You really have no understanding of the purpose, origin or practice of the headscarf in countries around the middle-east and mediterranean whatsoever. Would it come as some surprise to you to know that in the early 20th century Irish women would wear headscarves to protect their modesty? Oh those poor oppressed Irish women, whatever became of them?
"Would it come as some surprise to you to know that in the early 20th century Irish women would wear headscarves to protect their modesty? Oh those poor oppressed Irish women, whatever became of them?"
They quit wearing them, it would seem. This puts them a century ahead.
Yes, because what you wear on your head is equivalent to 100 years of technological and cultural progress. Thank goodness no-one in the west wears hats anymore, ban them!
Regarding the subject of denying crimes against humanity, how is the Pakistani education about the mass murders in Bangladesh 40 years ago -- by Pakistani troops?
(Afaik, Pakistani students coming to western Europe haven't heard about them.)
>>Oh those poor oppressed Irish women, whatever became of them?
They got their freedom and human rights a little later than other countries in western Europe -- Ireland had a bit of a tough history, for a while. When does that freedom come to the Mid East and Pakistan?
Edit: "You can find X everywhere" is easy, for most any X. But it is often dishonest and lazy. E.g. rapes happens in prisons in most any country -- but a serious argument would note that it is totally different if it happens to 5% of the prison population or 0.1 promille. And if it is a "job bonus" for the guards, like Syria.
Comments
You are right about the shift in Turkey's trade to the middle east. Turkey still exports something like 25% - 40% of its total exports to EU countries (not sure about exact % right now). If the EU imposed trade sanctions on Turkey, it would be hard to argue that there would be no effect.
How can you even compare holocaust denial laws to what muslim countries do? You think denying people the right to disagree with the state or condemning them to a life with their rapist or torturing a man AND taking away the right of people to deny a historical fact are the same thing? I don't see why the holocaust denial law is necessary but I don't see it as being oppressive to rights that should be fundamental!
Religious headscarves should be banned for the same reason slavery is. Just because a slave would never complain to law enforcement agencies and does not see the injustice in his life because he has been brainwashed and accepts his fate does not mean the state should not enforce his rights. Have you even seen the plight of women in an orthodox muslim family? Would you consider a muslim women who only does what she is "allowed" as your equal? Banning the hijab was a good move - it is a symbol of oppression.
There you go with the 'muslim countries' thing again. It's not like you can lump a whole load of different countries into one basket and make sweeping generalisations.
"How can you even compare holocaust denial laws to what muslim countries do?" - Very easily. The holocaust was over 65 years ago. The perpetrators of this egregious act are mostly dead. The victims of this egregious act are mostly dead. The modern German of today had nothing to do with the holocaust. Their mother and father had nothing to do with the holocaust. What does making holocaust denial do other than prohibit a form of dissent? Does it bring people back to life? No, it does not. Does it stop it from happening again? Just because a crime is unmentionable does not mean that it would not happen (and the holocaust is not the only genocide, nor the most efficient one, there have been many more before and since).
When you remove the right to say fuck, you remove the right to say fuck the government. In Germany any debate on the extent of the holocaust is stifled due to the law, the same (but opposite case) as it is in Turkey with respect to the atrocities referred to by some as the Armenian Genocide. In both cases the law is wrong and stifles free speech and people go to jail[1][2] for dissent against it.
> Religious headscarves should be banned for the same reason slavery is.
You really have no understanding of the purpose, origin or practice of the headscarf in countries around the middle-east and mediterranean whatsoever. Would it come as some surprise to you to know that in the early 20th century Irish women would wear headscarves to protect their modesty? Oh those poor oppressed Irish women, whatever became of them?
[1] - http://www.rense.com/general78/dsdde.htm
[2] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/4205708.stm (although in this case one of Turkey's most celebrated authors' trials was cancelled at the last minute)
"Would it come as some surprise to you to know that in the early 20th century Irish women would wear headscarves to protect their modesty? Oh those poor oppressed Irish women, whatever became of them?"
They quit wearing them, it would seem. This puts them a century ahead.
Yes, because what you wear on your head is equivalent to 100 years of technological and cultural progress. Thank goodness no-one in the west wears hats anymore, ban them!
What does "protect their modesty" mean?
Regarding the subject of denying crimes against humanity, how is the Pakistani education about the mass murders in Bangladesh 40 years ago -- by Pakistani troops?
(Afaik, Pakistani students coming to western Europe haven't heard about them.)
>>Oh those poor oppressed Irish women, whatever became of them?
They got their freedom and human rights a little later than other countries in western Europe -- Ireland had a bit of a tough history, for a while. When does that freedom come to the Mid East and Pakistan?
Edit: "You can find X everywhere" is easy, for most any X. But it is often dishonest and lazy. E.g. rapes happens in prisons in most any country -- but a serious argument would note that it is totally different if it happens to 5% of the prison population or 0.1 promille. And if it is a "job bonus" for the guards, like Syria.