US law already imposes fines and penalties on hiring people trying to work illegally in the US. But offshoring by contract is legal and fairly common. My point is, offshoring started decades ago but hasn’t made a big dent in US tech employment. I remember the panics about offshoring and how we’d all lose our jobs. Didn’t happen.
Every country uses tariffs and trade restrictions already and have for centuries. Complete isolation isn’t possible unless you like living in North Korea, and doesn’t make economic sense. The US has benefited far more than it has lost from global trade, so I don’t find this argument compelling. It’s simplistic xenophobia and nationalism.
> I remember the panics about offshoring and how we’d all lose our jobs. Didn’t happen.
Well it kinda did, just not yet in the tech space. But manufacturing has certainly taken a giant hit over the last few decades. There has also been a fair bit in tech but fortunately there's a Lot of tech still to do, so there's plenty of work to go around.
All that said, I agree with your thesis that trade is a net gain at the societal level, while potentially being a net loss for some at the individual level.
Offshoring / visas do not account for remote work. U.S. trade restrictions are usually light and can be bypassed easily.
The argument for it is one of vertical integration. A nation should control the items it creates, from banking to military end to end as much as possible. That also maximizes security. Look at the Boeing documents from the engineer over 10 years ago questioning outsourcing. All of your pii and banking data is probably managed by dbas in Asia. That does not sound secure or safe to me.
We are heading towards a time and place where we will not produce anything as a country. Many areas that were once prosperous now are destitute. People live by dealing drugs and by taking as much from the government as possible where their parents worked in factories. People’s respect and dignity have been offshored and outsourced.
Trying to do what’s best for a country and its people is not xenophobic. It’s common sense. It’s very sad and disconcerting to see us citizens wanting the most from their country having their ideas labeled as xenophobic.
I acknowledge U.S. trade has benefited but we are seeing signs of cracks and the side effects of it now. I also don’t think the average American has benefited from it. Living in Bangalore (nicer areas)felt like America in the 90s to me — the same places I used to enjoy in America that are now infested with crime .
Remote workers are either US citizens or green card holders, which means subject to US taxes regardless of where they live, or contractors not subject to employment laws or taxes. At scale offshoring generally means moving entire factories or business units to countries with cheaper labor costs and/or more lax regulations. I look at that trend like any other historical economic trend: it creates both winners and losers.
The US government ceased to represent the American people in favor of corporations and the wealthy some time ago. That’s also the norm for governments, historically. Attempts to change that get called socialism and dismissed in America. It’s too late for isolationism, but I agree that corporations have a responsibility to balance the effects of offshoring and imports so America doesn’t get hollowed out. You can see how that has worked out.
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There needs to be strict regulations on U.S. businesses to disallow them from hiring anyone that is not a citizen or on a visa.
Products that are developed in other countries also must have such an expensive tariff it basically discourages the purchasing of it.
US law already imposes fines and penalties on hiring people trying to work illegally in the US. But offshoring by contract is legal and fairly common. My point is, offshoring started decades ago but hasn’t made a big dent in US tech employment. I remember the panics about offshoring and how we’d all lose our jobs. Didn’t happen.
Every country uses tariffs and trade restrictions already and have for centuries. Complete isolation isn’t possible unless you like living in North Korea, and doesn’t make economic sense. The US has benefited far more than it has lost from global trade, so I don’t find this argument compelling. It’s simplistic xenophobia and nationalism.
Well it kinda did, just not yet in the tech space. But manufacturing has certainly taken a giant hit over the last few decades. There has also been a fair bit in tech but fortunately there's a Lot of tech still to do, so there's plenty of work to go around.
All that said, I agree with your thesis that trade is a net gain at the societal level, while potentially being a net loss for some at the individual level.
Xenophobia and Nationalism are not the solution.
Offshoring / visas do not account for remote work. U.S. trade restrictions are usually light and can be bypassed easily.
The argument for it is one of vertical integration. A nation should control the items it creates, from banking to military end to end as much as possible. That also maximizes security. Look at the Boeing documents from the engineer over 10 years ago questioning outsourcing. All of your pii and banking data is probably managed by dbas in Asia. That does not sound secure or safe to me.
We are heading towards a time and place where we will not produce anything as a country. Many areas that were once prosperous now are destitute. People live by dealing drugs and by taking as much from the government as possible where their parents worked in factories. People’s respect and dignity have been offshored and outsourced.
Trying to do what’s best for a country and its people is not xenophobic. It’s common sense. It’s very sad and disconcerting to see us citizens wanting the most from their country having their ideas labeled as xenophobic.
I acknowledge U.S. trade has benefited but we are seeing signs of cracks and the side effects of it now. I also don’t think the average American has benefited from it. Living in Bangalore (nicer areas)felt like America in the 90s to me — the same places I used to enjoy in America that are now infested with crime .
Remote workers are either US citizens or green card holders, which means subject to US taxes regardless of where they live, or contractors not subject to employment laws or taxes. At scale offshoring generally means moving entire factories or business units to countries with cheaper labor costs and/or more lax regulations. I look at that trend like any other historical economic trend: it creates both winners and losers.
The US government ceased to represent the American people in favor of corporations and the wealthy some time ago. That’s also the norm for governments, historically. Attempts to change that get called socialism and dismissed in America. It’s too late for isolationism, but I agree that corporations have a responsibility to balance the effects of offshoring and imports so America doesn’t get hollowed out. You can see how that has worked out.
Clearly there is not that responsibility. Also, a lot of remote workers are not us citizens or authorized to work physically in the us.
True, but that’s not illegal.
Right. That was never disputed. It’s questionable if that’s the best for the us citizen.
Offshoring absolutely did happen for a variety of technical industries. See: the Rust Belt.
I know. That why I wrote: