So, in my experience, one of the big issues with the Java ecosystem is that you've got to use all these frameworks and tooling and all this other stuff in an enterprise setting (and once you scale, you're enterprise). This is somewhat abhorrent to systems guys/C neckbeards because, honestly, it reduces your role to cleverly linking together AbstractPipeEnterpriseBeanVisitorFactory objects.
Moreover, once you scale, you get big money, and then you hire IBM or Oracle or whoever to come in with consultants and give you the bespoke blessed Java stack. I have a friend in ecommerce right now (who is also an excellent low-level neckbeard) and his company bought top-of-the-line storage and things just to support the log spew from this stuff.
This isn't wrong, mind you...it's just that, at some point, it's better to just spend money on bigger iron, and then the neckbeards say "Fuck, this is boring and dumb" and leave for a challenge elsewhere.
Oracle's DB is written in C and has all the same problems. That's not a statement about C, and problems with Websphere or whatever POS that company's using aren't a problem with Java.
The ASF has a ton of stuff based around the idea of "libraries rather than frameworks".
(not sure why the downvotes, but hey, to each their own)
Again, I'm not bashing Java here. I think it's a good language, with a some cool things.
But, if you hire a neckbeard to code for you in Java, and they start messing around with java.net.blah and java.io.blah, and you're doing a webstack or something... I'm going to wonder whether or not they're mad. If they were doing this in C, that'd be par for the course and perhaps worth the effort. If you're in Java, though, why aren't they using the established libraries?
Anyways, again, consider the other issues for things like SOAP, XML, etc. Everybody ends up using the massive tooling stuff for that, and we're back to my original observation.
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So, in my experience, one of the big issues with the Java ecosystem is that you've got to use all these frameworks and tooling and all this other stuff in an enterprise setting (and once you scale, you're enterprise). This is somewhat abhorrent to systems guys/C neckbeards because, honestly, it reduces your role to cleverly linking together AbstractPipeEnterpriseBeanVisitorFactory objects.
Moreover, once you scale, you get big money, and then you hire IBM or Oracle or whoever to come in with consultants and give you the bespoke blessed Java stack. I have a friend in ecommerce right now (who is also an excellent low-level neckbeard) and his company bought top-of-the-line storage and things just to support the log spew from this stuff.
This isn't wrong, mind you...it's just that, at some point, it's better to just spend money on bigger iron, and then the neckbeards say "Fuck, this is boring and dumb" and leave for a challenge elsewhere.
Oracle's DB is written in C and has all the same problems. That's not a statement about C, and problems with Websphere or whatever POS that company's using aren't a problem with Java.
The ASF has a ton of stuff based around the idea of "libraries rather than frameworks".
(not sure why the downvotes, but hey, to each their own)
Again, I'm not bashing Java here. I think it's a good language, with a some cool things.
But, if you hire a neckbeard to code for you in Java, and they start messing around with java.net.blah and java.io.blah, and you're doing a webstack or something... I'm going to wonder whether or not they're mad. If they were doing this in C, that'd be par for the course and perhaps worth the effort. If you're in Java, though, why aren't they using the established libraries?
Anyways, again, consider the other issues for things like SOAP, XML, etc. Everybody ends up using the massive tooling stuff for that, and we're back to my original observation.
SOAP is a bad example since you should avoid it anyway.