With modern cars regularly lasting into 300,000 miles, it makes sense that we would see fewer people buying new cars. There are a lot of used cars with plenty of life left in them. Most people also buy used homes instead of new.
This. It's not only reliability at high mileage, but also as they age. Driving a 2012 and a 2014, both seem to still be 100% mechanically and electrically sound without any major repairs, with only minor body dings that are more related to parking lot negligence than engineering. Totally reliable, no major body issues, nothing. In the past, I've never had any other car go more than 8 years without a major repair, some annoying series of endless minor repairs, or the development of annoying behaviors. Things have changed.
I can afford a new car, but any car buying on my part is being delayed by these cars being effectively free (with insurance, license and fuel costs, yes) at a point while car prices are high. It's also being delayed by the knowledge that if mainstream cars can be this trouble-free with typical maintenance, I'll need to choose my next car(s) carefully, since I like to buy my cars outright, and will be effectively stuck with it for over a decade, so it has to be something I like much more than these old ones.
Do you have any examples of cars that "regularly" last 300,000 miles (480,000 km)?
I have an old VW Passat TDI with 300,000 that I am working to restore, but it definitely didn't "last" that long. Our Jetta TDI "lasted" 240,000 miles, but it's definitely on its absolute last legs and not regular. The difference between them is stark: the early 90s Passat is bolted together; the newer Jetta is (was) glued. The Passat has electrical plugs and components can be replaced; the Jetta wiring is largely routed through the unibody (which has been welded shut). Cracked wires (of which there are many) cannot be easily replaced or repaired. It's got bean counters' fingerprints all over it.
If anything, I would expect to see the same thing happen in cars as which happened everywhere else in consumer appliances: manufacturing processes are cheapened to the absolute limit of acceptable warranty repairs.
I'd put a randomly chosen Honda Civic or CR-V or Toyota Camry or Prius from a non-snowbelt area as a slight favorite to be able to reach 300K. We've got a 2005 CR-V with 235K miles on it that will need to be retired due to rust in the next few years. Mechanically, it's still dead nuts reliable.
...from a non-snowbelt area ... We've got a 2005 CR-V with 235K miles on it that will need to be retired due to rust in the next few years. Mechanically, it's still dead nuts reliable.
I had a 2004 Honda Pilot that was still mechanically good at 240k miles, but the salt melt that gets put on the roads in Minnesota ate through the rear suspension mount points to the frame. My auto repair shop wouldn't even quote me a repair on that, which I assume would have basically been to replace the frame and rebuild the body for $20-30k.
You're right, cars manufactured recently could be worse. Here's a related statistic that shows things headed in a good direction: "Average Age of Light Vehicles in the US Hits Record High 12.5 years" https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/avera....
a 1-3 year old used car with low'ish miles and decent gas milage is the sweet spot. You save a new car off the assembly line, you save an old car from the junk yard, price is considerably lower than a new car, and it will probably be perfectly functional long after you've paid it off.
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With modern cars regularly lasting into 300,000 miles, it makes sense that we would see fewer people buying new cars. There are a lot of used cars with plenty of life left in them. Most people also buy used homes instead of new.
This. It's not only reliability at high mileage, but also as they age. Driving a 2012 and a 2014, both seem to still be 100% mechanically and electrically sound without any major repairs, with only minor body dings that are more related to parking lot negligence than engineering. Totally reliable, no major body issues, nothing. In the past, I've never had any other car go more than 8 years without a major repair, some annoying series of endless minor repairs, or the development of annoying behaviors. Things have changed.
I can afford a new car, but any car buying on my part is being delayed by these cars being effectively free (with insurance, license and fuel costs, yes) at a point while car prices are high. It's also being delayed by the knowledge that if mainstream cars can be this trouble-free with typical maintenance, I'll need to choose my next car(s) carefully, since I like to buy my cars outright, and will be effectively stuck with it for over a decade, so it has to be something I like much more than these old ones.
Do you have any examples of cars that "regularly" last 300,000 miles (480,000 km)?
I have an old VW Passat TDI with 300,000 that I am working to restore, but it definitely didn't "last" that long. Our Jetta TDI "lasted" 240,000 miles, but it's definitely on its absolute last legs and not regular. The difference between them is stark: the early 90s Passat is bolted together; the newer Jetta is (was) glued. The Passat has electrical plugs and components can be replaced; the Jetta wiring is largely routed through the unibody (which has been welded shut). Cracked wires (of which there are many) cannot be easily replaced or repaired. It's got bean counters' fingerprints all over it.
If anything, I would expect to see the same thing happen in cars as which happened everywhere else in consumer appliances: manufacturing processes are cheapened to the absolute limit of acceptable warranty repairs.
I'd put a randomly chosen Honda Civic or CR-V or Toyota Camry or Prius from a non-snowbelt area as a slight favorite to be able to reach 300K. We've got a 2005 CR-V with 235K miles on it that will need to be retired due to rust in the next few years. Mechanically, it's still dead nuts reliable.
I had a 2004 Honda Pilot that was still mechanically good at 240k miles, but the salt melt that gets put on the roads in Minnesota ate through the rear suspension mount points to the frame. My auto repair shop wouldn't even quote me a repair on that, which I assume would have basically been to replace the frame and rebuild the body for $20-30k.
You're right, cars manufactured recently could be worse. Here's a related statistic that shows things headed in a good direction: "Average Age of Light Vehicles in the US Hits Record High 12.5 years" https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/avera....
a 1-3 year old used car with low'ish miles and decent gas milage is the sweet spot. You save a new car off the assembly line, you save an old car from the junk yard, price is considerably lower than a new car, and it will probably be perfectly functional long after you've paid it off.