That's a conflation. I'm certain for at least some, the choice is more about using a single language than avoiding JS. I'm sure there are people using htmx who use a JS backend. That there are at least 5 LiveView clones for JS also are evidence that there's a desire to use JS for both front and back end for dynamic websites: https://github.com/liveviews/liveviews#javascripttypescript
Not only has it been an option for a long time, it’s also popular. Next.js on Vercel is more or less a goto these days. I don’t see a trend of people avoiding JS, much the opposite
Exactly. So if JS has been able to do something for a long time, why would someone create new tools in different languages that do similar things? Because they don't want to write JS...
Nope. What I'm saying is entirely compatible with my earlier statement.
More specifically they want to use one language for the front and back end
What I mean here is exactly what I mean. Excuse the tautology because I don't think I can express it any clearer. It was in contrast to this:
I believe it's pretty clear that htmx (and Phoenix) exist (at least in part) because people specifically _do not_ want to use Javascript.
Taking your example, Phoenix Liveview exists because Elixir developers want to use the same language across the stack. This might be because they are unfamiliar with JS, and learning a new language might be a pain. Or perhaps they are familiar with JS, but the context switch to another language still presents enough friction to avoid it. Choosing a single-language stack doesn't imply an aversion to JS in particular.
Comments
Well…yes, and that they don’t want that language to be JavaScript.
That's a conflation. I'm certain for at least some, the choice is more about using a single language than avoiding JS. I'm sure there are people using htmx who use a JS backend. That there are at least 5 LiveView clones for JS also are evidence that there's a desire to use JS for both front and back end for dynamic websites: https://github.com/liveviews/liveviews#javascripttypescript
You’ve been able to do this in JS for over a decade now. So…
Not only has it been an option for a long time, it’s also popular. Next.js on Vercel is more or less a goto these days. I don’t see a trend of people avoiding JS, much the opposite
Exactly. So if JS has been able to do something for a long time, why would someone create new tools in different languages that do similar things? Because they don't want to write JS...
It's like you forgot what we were discussing?
Nope. What I'm saying is entirely compatible with my earlier statement.
What I mean here is exactly what I mean. Excuse the tautology because I don't think I can express it any clearer. It was in contrast to this:
Taking your example, Phoenix Liveview exists because Elixir developers want to use the same language across the stack. This might be because they are unfamiliar with JS, and learning a new language might be a pain. Or perhaps they are familiar with JS, but the context switch to another language still presents enough friction to avoid it. Choosing a single-language stack doesn't imply an aversion to JS in particular.
And the developers didn't want to use JS...
But yeah I'll bail here. Best of luck.