I do find it curious that not that much science came out of the Byzantine empire- Yes there was some, but (with my admittedly limited knowledge) it does seem to pale in comparison to the earlier stuff from Greece, Rome or even the Arab Caliphates with their scholars in Mathematics and Physics.
It seems like it was intellectual, but didn't have a proportional output of science or art that has stood the test of time.
Unfortunately for the Byzantine empire it spent most of its centuries in a population/territory/economic decline.
Back in 541-542 an outbreak killed about 40% of the city’s population.
But even during the period 1347-1453, a total of 61 plague reports were noted.
They only had the wealth, peace and population to focus on science to a very small degree. That they managed to stay afloat for as long as they did is a testament to the science the original Romans left them, and which we can thank the Byzantine's for preserving.
There is a strange trend of downplaying Byzantine heritage.. for instance modern Greek society seems to uphold the ancient Greeks much more, when in fact there are much closer ties to the Byzantine... a few hundred years ago it wouldn't have occurred to any Greek that they are connected to the ancients, and this trend has started with European Romantics.
I’m impressed by how you manage to disparage both the very real intellectual achievement of both the Byzantine empire and the Abbasid Caliphate in such a short comment. It’s even more amusing that you do that while comparing them to the Greek achievements without realising that the main reasons you know about them is due to translations made by intellectuals of the Byzantine empire and especially of the Caliphate.
It seems like you're just kind of arguing that every culture everywhere at all times was the most awesome culture ever and had the most awesome scientific achievements and saying that relative comparisons are possible is uncouth
Even though I'm an oaf, I do think it's nice that they maintained copies of the Greek stuff
Well, Christianity is a big reason. It was so successful for so long in part because it aggressively repressed any ideologies which could have threatened its hegemony. Since the Church considered the ’scientific’ domain to be part of its curriculum, new science was generally a threat.
Since the Church considered the ’scientific’ domain to be part of its curriculum, new science was generally a threat.
I don't think that's true. Church only opposed science that was in contradiction with the Bible, which was a small minority of all science discoveries. Church never had any qualms with Newton laws or laws of conservation of mass (in chemistry) etc.
Church never had any qualms with Newton laws or laws of conservation of mass (in chemistry) etc.
That was a much later church separated by more than one schism. The Orthodox Church of the Byzantine empire was much less tolerant of any thoughts that might contradict doctrine. More that one philosopher was convicted of heresy.
Christianity was not locked in during the time of the Byzantines and in many cases discussions were common about it's different interpretations. Monphysitism, Iconoclasts, various flavors of Arian (named for the monk Arius), etc. were all floating around.
Constantinople had a reputation for having constant theological debates; writers mentioned how common townsfolk were debating the nature of Christ, etc.
Historically, looking back at them we see "unenlightened" folk -- perhaps the way future people, the ones who survive WW4, will look back at us and our debates about race and gender -- but at the time they were wildly well educated and highly versed in religion, politics, and philosophy.
And they did have science -- we have yet to fully understand Greek fire. Innovations in armor and horse breeding created the Cataphracts, based on Eurasian horsemen that the Byzantines routinely clashed with.
And, as the article points out, they smuggled silk and created a new industry from scratch. We scorn them for not being as advanced as we are 1000 years later but for a while Constantinople was, to quote Napoleon, "the city of the world's desire".
Comments
I do find it curious that not that much science came out of the Byzantine empire- Yes there was some, but (with my admittedly limited knowledge) it does seem to pale in comparison to the earlier stuff from Greece, Rome or even the Arab Caliphates with their scholars in Mathematics and Physics.
It seems like it was intellectual, but didn't have a proportional output of science or art that has stood the test of time.
Feel free to disagree and tell me why I'm wrong
Unfortunately for the Byzantine empire it spent most of its centuries in a population/territory/economic decline.
Back in 541-542 an outbreak killed about 40% of the city’s population. But even during the period 1347-1453, a total of 61 plague reports were noted.
They only had the wealth, peace and population to focus on science to a very small degree. That they managed to stay afloat for as long as they did is a testament to the science the original Romans left them, and which we can thank the Byzantine's for preserving.
An outbreak of the plague.
https://www.worldhistory.org/article/782/justinians-plague-5...
Yes! And that's the same Justinian, btw. Not a lucky guy.
There is a strange trend of downplaying Byzantine heritage.. for instance modern Greek society seems to uphold the ancient Greeks much more, when in fact there are much closer ties to the Byzantine... a few hundred years ago it wouldn't have occurred to any Greek that they are connected to the ancients, and this trend has started with European Romantics.
But they did produce significant art and science, and especially architecture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_science
There would have been no transmission of the classics without the Byzantine, and possibly no Renaissance in Europe.
I’m impressed by how you manage to disparage both the very real intellectual achievement of both the Byzantine empire and the Abbasid Caliphate in such a short comment. It’s even more amusing that you do that while comparing them to the Greek achievements without realising that the main reasons you know about them is due to translations made by intellectuals of the Byzantine empire and especially of the Caliphate.
It seems like you're just kind of arguing that every culture everywhere at all times was the most awesome culture ever and had the most awesome scientific achievements and saying that relative comparisons are possible is uncouth
Even though I'm an oaf, I do think it's nice that they maintained copies of the Greek stuff
Well, Christianity is a big reason. It was so successful for so long in part because it aggressively repressed any ideologies which could have threatened its hegemony. Since the Church considered the ’scientific’ domain to be part of its curriculum, new science was generally a threat.
I don't think that's true. Church only opposed science that was in contradiction with the Bible, which was a small minority of all science discoveries. Church never had any qualms with Newton laws or laws of conservation of mass (in chemistry) etc.
That was a much later church separated by more than one schism. The Orthodox Church of the Byzantine empire was much less tolerant of any thoughts that might contradict doctrine. More that one philosopher was convicted of heresy.
Were these philosophers generating science?
Christianity was not locked in during the time of the Byzantines and in many cases discussions were common about it's different interpretations. Monphysitism, Iconoclasts, various flavors of Arian (named for the monk Arius), etc. were all floating around.
Constantinople had a reputation for having constant theological debates; writers mentioned how common townsfolk were debating the nature of Christ, etc.
Historically, looking back at them we see "unenlightened" folk -- perhaps the way future people, the ones who survive WW4, will look back at us and our debates about race and gender -- but at the time they were wildly well educated and highly versed in religion, politics, and philosophy.
And they did have science -- we have yet to fully understand Greek fire. Innovations in armor and horse breeding created the Cataphracts, based on Eurasian horsemen that the Byzantines routinely clashed with.
And, as the article points out, they smuggled silk and created a new industry from scratch. We scorn them for not being as advanced as we are 1000 years later but for a while Constantinople was, to quote Napoleon, "the city of the world's desire".
Citation?