The focus on temperature is a bit off in my opinion. Warming the planet by a few degrees centigrade should be thought of as massively increasing energy into the weather system. This will necessitate a period of dramatic “turbulence” (wild local swings) while a new equilibrium is established. This will potentially cause massive disruption in the world order.
There is also the fact that making areas like Siberia more habitable in terms of temperature isn’t exactly helpful if it doesn’t have soil conducive to growing food or for enough infrastructure to house large numbers of people. It’s a much better investment of time/wealth to spend it on mitigation than what humanity currently focuses on.
Life on Earth will continue regardless of what we do. What may not continue is how we currently live.
> Warming the planet by a few degrees centigrade should be thought of as massively increasing energy into the weather system.
But it doesn't, not "massively". "Warming" here means increasing air temperatures, but the atmosphere is tiny considered as a heat sink.
> This will necessitate a period of dramatic “turbulence” (wild local swings) while a new equilibrium is established. This will potentially cause massive disruption in the world order.
Alarmists might claim this, but there isn't any evidence for it. A far more likely source of disruption in the world order is alarmist claims themselves.
> making areas like Siberia more habitable in terms of temperature isn’t exactly helpful if it doesn’t have soil conducive to growing food or for enough infrastructure to house large numbers of people.
People already manage to grow things in Siberia (and in some colder parts of Canada) despite the temperature. That will only improve as the region warms.
As for infrastructure, that's what adaptation is for: as more people want to move there, you build the infrastructure. Just like we do now in other areas that people want to move to. This has been going on for as long as humans have moved around the planet.
> What may not continue is how we currently live.
"How we currently live" has already changed massively in the past century or two. Of course it will continue to change, and of course people should be aware of that and should be planning accordingly. But there is no need for alarmism about it.
I don’t think you know what you are talking about. It’s hard to build adequate infrastructure on melting permafrost. One can’t naively think, “we’ll just build what is needed” without taking into consideration the conditions. Humans have not always done this as we migrated throughout our history at the scale that would be required if hundreds of millions of people migrate to Siberia. The supply chain issues these past two years shows how fragile our globalized system is to shocks. Increasing the air temperature a few degrees centigrade means massively increasing the energy into the weather system.
> I don’t think you know what you are talking about.
I don't think you read my post very carefully.
> if hundreds of millions of people migrate to Siberia
Who said hundreds of millions? All I said was that the habitable range would be much more likely to expand with warming than to contract. That doesn't require that we shove a huge number of people into the edge of the new habitable range.
> The supply chain issues these past two years shows how fragile our globalized system is to shocks.
That has nothing to do with climate change and everything to do with how dysfunctional and corrupt our political systems are. The way to fix that is to fix our political systems, not to wring our hands about climate change.
I think you don’t comprehend what is written. You are stuck on a narrative and go with it regardless of what is written. An example of this.
Clearly I brought supply chain issues as a way of demonstrating fragility in the global system. It was obviously used as an example to demonstrate that it doesn’t take much disruption to cause shocks to the system. The obvious reason for mentioning this is to show that it is quite plausible for climate change to cause major disruptions in how societies work. Your response is: This has nothing to do with climate change…. You failed to understand the clearly made point.
Another example. You mention that throughout human history migrations have happened and humans built societies where they migrated. I point out that the scale that this would have to be done under scenarios envisioned being a consequence or global warming is unprecedented. There 8 billion people now and mass migrations on the scale that would be needed have never happened before. Also, very few people actually grow food these days and so mass migrations would need massive amounts of new infrastructure in conditions that are not conducive to building said infrastructure. Your response to this is a non sequitor.
You haven’t thought through the implications and clearly you don’t have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.
I comprehend what you have written just fine. I just recognize, as apparently you don't, that you are responding to a straw man, and failing to respond to the actual points I have made.
> clearly you don’t have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.
I think the same about you, so it seems unlikely that further discussion will be fruitful.
Comments
The focus on temperature is a bit off in my opinion. Warming the planet by a few degrees centigrade should be thought of as massively increasing energy into the weather system. This will necessitate a period of dramatic “turbulence” (wild local swings) while a new equilibrium is established. This will potentially cause massive disruption in the world order.
There is also the fact that making areas like Siberia more habitable in terms of temperature isn’t exactly helpful if it doesn’t have soil conducive to growing food or for enough infrastructure to house large numbers of people. It’s a much better investment of time/wealth to spend it on mitigation than what humanity currently focuses on.
Life on Earth will continue regardless of what we do. What may not continue is how we currently live.
> Warming the planet by a few degrees centigrade should be thought of as massively increasing energy into the weather system.
But it doesn't, not "massively". "Warming" here means increasing air temperatures, but the atmosphere is tiny considered as a heat sink.
> This will necessitate a period of dramatic “turbulence” (wild local swings) while a new equilibrium is established. This will potentially cause massive disruption in the world order.
Alarmists might claim this, but there isn't any evidence for it. A far more likely source of disruption in the world order is alarmist claims themselves.
> making areas like Siberia more habitable in terms of temperature isn’t exactly helpful if it doesn’t have soil conducive to growing food or for enough infrastructure to house large numbers of people.
People already manage to grow things in Siberia (and in some colder parts of Canada) despite the temperature. That will only improve as the region warms.
As for infrastructure, that's what adaptation is for: as more people want to move there, you build the infrastructure. Just like we do now in other areas that people want to move to. This has been going on for as long as humans have moved around the planet.
> What may not continue is how we currently live.
"How we currently live" has already changed massively in the past century or two. Of course it will continue to change, and of course people should be aware of that and should be planning accordingly. But there is no need for alarmism about it.
I don’t think you know what you are talking about. It’s hard to build adequate infrastructure on melting permafrost. One can’t naively think, “we’ll just build what is needed” without taking into consideration the conditions. Humans have not always done this as we migrated throughout our history at the scale that would be required if hundreds of millions of people migrate to Siberia. The supply chain issues these past two years shows how fragile our globalized system is to shocks. Increasing the air temperature a few degrees centigrade means massively increasing the energy into the weather system.
> I don’t think you know what you are talking about.
I don't think you read my post very carefully.
> if hundreds of millions of people migrate to Siberia
Who said hundreds of millions? All I said was that the habitable range would be much more likely to expand with warming than to contract. That doesn't require that we shove a huge number of people into the edge of the new habitable range.
> The supply chain issues these past two years shows how fragile our globalized system is to shocks.
That has nothing to do with climate change and everything to do with how dysfunctional and corrupt our political systems are. The way to fix that is to fix our political systems, not to wring our hands about climate change.
I think you don’t comprehend what is written. You are stuck on a narrative and go with it regardless of what is written. An example of this.
Clearly I brought supply chain issues as a way of demonstrating fragility in the global system. It was obviously used as an example to demonstrate that it doesn’t take much disruption to cause shocks to the system. The obvious reason for mentioning this is to show that it is quite plausible for climate change to cause major disruptions in how societies work. Your response is: This has nothing to do with climate change…. You failed to understand the clearly made point.
Another example. You mention that throughout human history migrations have happened and humans built societies where they migrated. I point out that the scale that this would have to be done under scenarios envisioned being a consequence or global warming is unprecedented. There 8 billion people now and mass migrations on the scale that would be needed have never happened before. Also, very few people actually grow food these days and so mass migrations would need massive amounts of new infrastructure in conditions that are not conducive to building said infrastructure. Your response to this is a non sequitor.
You haven’t thought through the implications and clearly you don’t have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.
> I think you don’t comprehend what is written.
I comprehend what you have written just fine. I just recognize, as apparently you don't, that you are responding to a straw man, and failing to respond to the actual points I have made.
> clearly you don’t have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.
I think the same about you, so it seems unlikely that further discussion will be fruitful.
Is a bunker fragile just because a direct hit by a nuke will destroy it?