I think it's fantastic that you're encouraging them to do this--things will never get better without us chipping away at it, but also understand, too, how hard it is to be "confidently independent" when it comes to asking for recognition for one's work--it may be a bit illuminating to ask the women you care about how being "confidently independent" when negotiating raises and salaries when job hunting really works out for them.
In my experience, people (both men and women) can be really turned off by a woman asking for what she's worth. Personally, I haven't gotten too worked up about this when it happens to me--I think it's educational--it's good to know what you're getting into and how a prospective employer or current employer responds to that, to me, tells me a lot about whether I'd want to work or stay there.
But, witness, just a few small bites when job hunting or negotiating raises:
"You answered all the database questions right, but you laughed when they gave you the logic question about the lockers and prime numbers. You're just not technical enough! You ask for too much money anyway."
"We just can't justify giving you a raise of seven percent. Sure, we just justified adding three headcount to replace you and will end up paying a way less qualified guy 30k more than we paid you in just a few months, but still, whatcha thinkin', girlie? A seven percent raise is nuts right now!"
"We can't believe that you won't accept our job offer--sure, it's got fewer benefits, you'll be locked in a closet all day doing boring work and will make only 3k more a year, and we understand that due to the benefit reduction and longer commute, you'll actually be making a good 5k less than you are now - but we're a WONDERFUL company with great people...and you're TOTALLY overpaid now! Honestly, Jen, we don't know what your current company is thinking, paying you as much as they do."
It can be kind of exhausting and can really knock your confidence if you don't pretend it's just a game...we've either got to keep chipping away at it...or? What's wrong with saving a little money, figuring out wtf to do about health insurance, then jumping off the track and going our own way? I assure you that I don't have to be held back by these goofy attitudes anymore in my startup (full disclosure: you WILL have to deal with this when dealing with some investors and potential acquirers--but this just forces you to work that much harder at staying independent and self-sufficient so that you can tell them no if you need to). Bootstrapping a startup, right now, it can be terrifying, but you're not held back - people love or hate your work, not you - your users likely don't even know who you are and don't care, either. It's actually pretty amazing.
Comments
I think it's fantastic that you're encouraging them to do this--things will never get better without us chipping away at it, but also understand, too, how hard it is to be "confidently independent" when it comes to asking for recognition for one's work--it may be a bit illuminating to ask the women you care about how being "confidently independent" when negotiating raises and salaries when job hunting really works out for them.
In my experience, people (both men and women) can be really turned off by a woman asking for what she's worth. Personally, I haven't gotten too worked up about this when it happens to me--I think it's educational--it's good to know what you're getting into and how a prospective employer or current employer responds to that, to me, tells me a lot about whether I'd want to work or stay there.
But, witness, just a few small bites when job hunting or negotiating raises:
"You answered all the database questions right, but you laughed when they gave you the logic question about the lockers and prime numbers. You're just not technical enough! You ask for too much money anyway."
"We just can't justify giving you a raise of seven percent. Sure, we just justified adding three headcount to replace you and will end up paying a way less qualified guy 30k more than we paid you in just a few months, but still, whatcha thinkin', girlie? A seven percent raise is nuts right now!"
"We can't believe that you won't accept our job offer--sure, it's got fewer benefits, you'll be locked in a closet all day doing boring work and will make only 3k more a year, and we understand that due to the benefit reduction and longer commute, you'll actually be making a good 5k less than you are now - but we're a WONDERFUL company with great people...and you're TOTALLY overpaid now! Honestly, Jen, we don't know what your current company is thinking, paying you as much as they do."
It can be kind of exhausting and can really knock your confidence if you don't pretend it's just a game...we've either got to keep chipping away at it...or? What's wrong with saving a little money, figuring out wtf to do about health insurance, then jumping off the track and going our own way? I assure you that I don't have to be held back by these goofy attitudes anymore in my startup (full disclosure: you WILL have to deal with this when dealing with some investors and potential acquirers--but this just forces you to work that much harder at staying independent and self-sufficient so that you can tell them no if you need to). Bootstrapping a startup, right now, it can be terrifying, but you're not held back - people love or hate your work, not you - your users likely don't even know who you are and don't care, either. It's actually pretty amazing.