This short essay is not pg at his best in my view. Spending time having fun is Plain Good, and necessary, even for the most focused startup founder. But watching TV don't count obviously. Playing cards with friends at a terasse does.
You missed the point of the essay, playing cards or watching tv is compared to spending money on luxuries and doing busywork is compared to investment. The first two probably won't respectively take up ALL your time at the office or bankrupt you because they are both obviously BAD FOR YOU (in excess). The latter two can be perniciously compelling, even though they might respectively bankrupt you or waste all your time, because you're more easily fooled (by yourself or others) into thinking they're worthwhile.
There are many positive activities that can be both productive and fun, including a card game with friends. In that case, you are investing in to those relationships and fulfilling a very basic human desire for socialization.
It's not that you're not getting anything done. You're just getting different things done. Compare that to a day in front of the TV. Can you say you've gotten anything out of it? Did you learn anything? Were you able to relieve stress or relax? Perhaps in small quantities TV can provide those benefits, but would trading your entire day be worth it?
Now to take your card playing to an extreme, would it be beneficial for someone like the president to spend an entire day playing cards with non-political friends? Sure the president needs a vacation every once in a while, but assume that this is not a vacation day. There are many more important things that should be done, and even with the relaxation and socialization benefits that card playing with friends has, I believe the president's "wasting time" alarm would go off. There are elections to win and speeches to give. But what about spending an entire day reviewing a minor bill? Sure, bills are important. After all, the president should know about what new laws are being considered. Even so, an entire day could go by without the president thinking "this is a waste of time". After all, he's not playing. He's working.
> [playing cards] you are investing in to those relationships and fulfilling a very basic human desire for socialization.
I think your point of view, and pg's, is very utilitarian. Utilitarianism has its uses in many human activities, including writing code, but should not be invoked when talking about playing cards with friends. When I play card, I do NOT "invest" in relationships, I have no intent to fulfill anything. I am just having a great time with friends. Playing cards, or fishing, or chatting idly, is just a way to spend time doing nothing. And doing nothing, ie spending time without any "investment intent", is the way to enjoy fully your time.
Take another case: if you spend time reading a lengthy novel, say Proust, what is it for? Do you read it because you want to tell your friends you read it? Do you read it because you think it is an "investment", adding up to your knowledge of world literature? Do you read it because you want to learn how to write a novel? Learn about Proust? Understand why so many people admire this book? NONE of these reason is valid. All of them are "intents", "investments". All of them will actually destroy in the egg the only valid outcome of reading this novel, which is pure reading pleasure. (You'll have to pass some barriers to feel this pleasure, in the beginning)
The same holds for painting, music, etc. If you go to a Concert hall listening to Mozart or go to the Louvre and take this activity as an investment in your knowledge of art and your ability to talk cleverly about it, you better stay home watch TV.
The flip-side of this is that by actually reading lengthy novel, playing cards idly with friends, etc., and doing so without intent, you will in fact learn a lot about life, about humans, and also how to handle relationships. But the "without intent" part is essential.
To take your example about the president: I would LOVE the presidents of big or small countries to spend a lot of time doing nothing, chatting with "non-politician" friends, read lengthy novels. They would probably do less mistakes.
We live in a world where we are made believe that every second counts, like in TV series. It is not true. The only reason to live on earth is to be happy, happiness is a state of mind that need some idle time to spawn, let's stop running behind our ghost's shade.
But isn't utility pleasure? If reading a novel gives you pleasure, then you derive utility from it. Same thing for playing cards. Investing into making yourself a better person is simply investing in future utility, ie. extra pleasure that you may be able to derive from being successful, owning a house, having stronger relationships, etc. These have to be balanced against the worth of immediate utility, which may mean that you'll spend a night playing cards with friends for some immediate pleasure, and the next night learning a language, in prevision of future rewards.
My impression is that you are reducing utilitarianism to a Mr Spock kind of pseudo-logical thinking. You seem to be forgetting that the ultimate goal of utilitarianism is happiness. It's not about gaining knowledge or even self-improvement. Playing cards for pure fun is not at odds with utilitarianism.
(Disclaimer: I am not a philosopher nor do I have more than a basic knowledge of utilitarianism)
Well, not sure I follow you on this terrain... Let's find something that we would agree is useless, and enjoyable. Maybe fishing alone and putting fish back in the river?
Or you would say that this is also useful. But then anything is useful and the word itself has no meaning (and become useless, hehe).
I may be too much influenced by Eastern streams of thoughts, where we have zen, taoism, etc., all saying that nothingness, emptiness, uselessness are things we should value more, because they are the ground on which everything grows. (Simple example: without silence on which a composer is building, no music is possible)
So, to go back to pg's essay, which is more of a short blog post, I found it was lacking an open door toward these possibilities that "lost time" is not always lost.
How would you measure the utility of something? I think our definitions of utility are not the same. I see utility as ANYTHING one derives usefulness from. Utility == value. Value is subjective. You value Zen. Taking the time to appreciate nothingness IS valuable to you, therefor spending the day meditating has utility to you.
The short essay isn't really about declaring activities to either be productive or wasted. It's about learning to identify "empty" activities that waste time with the false promise of being productive. Whether your time is wasted or productive is a personal matter for you to weigh against your own goals and values.
P.S. My apologies to anyone who might take offence to my poor understanding of Zen.
I have to disagree with the TV does not obviously not count part.
I will argue that whatching TV can be good, provided that you really enjoy it. There is nothing inherently better about reading a book over watching a show if you enjoy yourself.
The key is to actively choose something that you like to do and then do it. Don't watch TV mindlessly. But don't hang out with mindless friends either.
I don't really agree with the rest of your statement, but I don't think this was his best either. It's a keen observation, but I was expecting some advice or some more in-depth analysis. But blogging can be one of those things that keeps getting put off if you wait until you have a perfect essay.
Comments
This short essay is not pg at his best in my view. Spending time having fun is Plain Good, and necessary, even for the most focused startup founder. But watching TV don't count obviously. Playing cards with friends at a terasse does.
The most dangerous way to lose time is not to spend it having fun, but to spend it doing fake work.
His focus is not criticizing having fun, but wasting time without realizing it.
You missed the point of the essay, playing cards or watching tv is compared to spending money on luxuries and doing busywork is compared to investment. The first two probably won't respectively take up ALL your time at the office or bankrupt you because they are both obviously BAD FOR YOU (in excess). The latter two can be perniciously compelling, even though they might respectively bankrupt you or waste all your time, because you're more easily fooled (by yourself or others) into thinking they're worthwhile.
There are many positive activities that can be both productive and fun, including a card game with friends. In that case, you are investing in to those relationships and fulfilling a very basic human desire for socialization.
It's not that you're not getting anything done. You're just getting different things done. Compare that to a day in front of the TV. Can you say you've gotten anything out of it? Did you learn anything? Were you able to relieve stress or relax? Perhaps in small quantities TV can provide those benefits, but would trading your entire day be worth it?
Now to take your card playing to an extreme, would it be beneficial for someone like the president to spend an entire day playing cards with non-political friends? Sure the president needs a vacation every once in a while, but assume that this is not a vacation day. There are many more important things that should be done, and even with the relaxation and socialization benefits that card playing with friends has, I believe the president's "wasting time" alarm would go off. There are elections to win and speeches to give. But what about spending an entire day reviewing a minor bill? Sure, bills are important. After all, the president should know about what new laws are being considered. Even so, an entire day could go by without the president thinking "this is a waste of time". After all, he's not playing. He's working.
> [playing cards] you are investing in to those relationships and fulfilling a very basic human desire for socialization.
I think your point of view, and pg's, is very utilitarian. Utilitarianism has its uses in many human activities, including writing code, but should not be invoked when talking about playing cards with friends. When I play card, I do NOT "invest" in relationships, I have no intent to fulfill anything. I am just having a great time with friends. Playing cards, or fishing, or chatting idly, is just a way to spend time doing nothing. And doing nothing, ie spending time without any "investment intent", is the way to enjoy fully your time.
Take another case: if you spend time reading a lengthy novel, say Proust, what is it for? Do you read it because you want to tell your friends you read it? Do you read it because you think it is an "investment", adding up to your knowledge of world literature? Do you read it because you want to learn how to write a novel? Learn about Proust? Understand why so many people admire this book? NONE of these reason is valid. All of them are "intents", "investments". All of them will actually destroy in the egg the only valid outcome of reading this novel, which is pure reading pleasure. (You'll have to pass some barriers to feel this pleasure, in the beginning)
The same holds for painting, music, etc. If you go to a Concert hall listening to Mozart or go to the Louvre and take this activity as an investment in your knowledge of art and your ability to talk cleverly about it, you better stay home watch TV.
The flip-side of this is that by actually reading lengthy novel, playing cards idly with friends, etc., and doing so without intent, you will in fact learn a lot about life, about humans, and also how to handle relationships. But the "without intent" part is essential.
To take your example about the president: I would LOVE the presidents of big or small countries to spend a lot of time doing nothing, chatting with "non-politician" friends, read lengthy novels. They would probably do less mistakes.
We live in a world where we are made believe that every second counts, like in TV series. It is not true. The only reason to live on earth is to be happy, happiness is a state of mind that need some idle time to spawn, let's stop running behind our ghost's shade.
[Edit: typo, clarity]
But isn't utility pleasure? If reading a novel gives you pleasure, then you derive utility from it. Same thing for playing cards. Investing into making yourself a better person is simply investing in future utility, ie. extra pleasure that you may be able to derive from being successful, owning a house, having stronger relationships, etc. These have to be balanced against the worth of immediate utility, which may mean that you'll spend a night playing cards with friends for some immediate pleasure, and the next night learning a language, in prevision of future rewards.
My impression is that you are reducing utilitarianism to a Mr Spock kind of pseudo-logical thinking. You seem to be forgetting that the ultimate goal of utilitarianism is happiness. It's not about gaining knowledge or even self-improvement. Playing cards for pure fun is not at odds with utilitarianism.
(Disclaimer: I am not a philosopher nor do I have more than a basic knowledge of utilitarianism)
> pleasure == utility
Well, not sure I follow you on this terrain... Let's find something that we would agree is useless, and enjoyable. Maybe fishing alone and putting fish back in the river?
Or you would say that this is also useful. But then anything is useful and the word itself has no meaning (and become useless, hehe).
I may be too much influenced by Eastern streams of thoughts, where we have zen, taoism, etc., all saying that nothingness, emptiness, uselessness are things we should value more, because they are the ground on which everything grows. (Simple example: without silence on which a composer is building, no music is possible)
So, to go back to pg's essay, which is more of a short blog post, I found it was lacking an open door toward these possibilities that "lost time" is not always lost.
How would you measure the utility of something? I think our definitions of utility are not the same. I see utility as ANYTHING one derives usefulness from. Utility == value. Value is subjective. You value Zen. Taking the time to appreciate nothingness IS valuable to you, therefor spending the day meditating has utility to you.
The short essay isn't really about declaring activities to either be productive or wasted. It's about learning to identify "empty" activities that waste time with the false promise of being productive. Whether your time is wasted or productive is a personal matter for you to weigh against your own goals and values.
P.S. My apologies to anyone who might take offence to my poor understanding of Zen.
I have to disagree with the TV does not obviously not count part.
I will argue that whatching TV can be good, provided that you really enjoy it. There is nothing inherently better about reading a book over watching a show if you enjoy yourself.
The key is to actively choose something that you like to do and then do it. Don't watch TV mindlessly. But don't hang out with mindless friends either.
I don't really agree with the rest of your statement, but I don't think this was his best either. It's a keen observation, but I was expecting some advice or some more in-depth analysis. But blogging can be one of those things that keeps getting put off if you wait until you have a perfect essay.
When you are watching tv, you could be planning how you will do your next creative work.