The way I've seen at least some standards structured, you could take a FIPS entropy source and XOR it with a non-FIPS entropy source and from a security perspective (disregarding consideration of complexity introducing bugs or side channel attack considerations) you'd be no worse off than using one entropy source on its own, but would potentially gain the benefit of not having to trust a single standard/implementation. Linux and BSD kernels already use this approach with CPU-supplied entropy sources which the kernels do not just inherently trust (there is no way to verify the implementation).
For encryption, you could have a FIPS-compatible TLS connection over a non-FIPS Wireguard tunnel and again be no worse off (excluding performance etc reasons), whilst gaining the benefit of not having to trust one implementation exclusively.
Are there any standards that you are aware of that would prohibit mixing FIPS and non-FIPS entropy and encryption techniques as described above?
CPUs are “Enabled” and listed as a successful operation by NSA. Standards which are implemented in hardware and software are similarly backdoored. Protocols are designed to leak enough information to exploit various things at various levels. The new push to post-quantum without using mandatory hybrid constructions that include something we at least strongly believe to be (contemporarily) secure means that we should expect problems at literally every level from hardware to the newest key exchange mechanisms.
Can we theoretically build a baroque machine that combines something we trust with something we explicitly assume is compromised? Sure, and I like XOR as much as the next cryptographically knowledgeable person.
Should we? No, absolutely not. More importantly, will everyone who is required to use FIPS? Certainly not. Is it even allowed by auditors? Doubtful but maybe you can become one and bless your own solution. It’s still not a solution for everyone, not even close.
At the point where we start to even try, might we ask ourselves why we tolerate NSA and NIST doing this to the American public? Why don’t we understand what they planned to do when someone like you proposed things like you have done? After all, there is no question that NSA was playing the long game - they just believed their own NOBUS propaganda. Whoops.
Comments
The way I've seen at least some standards structured, you could take a FIPS entropy source and XOR it with a non-FIPS entropy source and from a security perspective (disregarding consideration of complexity introducing bugs or side channel attack considerations) you'd be no worse off than using one entropy source on its own, but would potentially gain the benefit of not having to trust a single standard/implementation. Linux and BSD kernels already use this approach with CPU-supplied entropy sources which the kernels do not just inherently trust (there is no way to verify the implementation).
For encryption, you could have a FIPS-compatible TLS connection over a non-FIPS Wireguard tunnel and again be no worse off (excluding performance etc reasons), whilst gaining the benefit of not having to trust one implementation exclusively.
Are there any standards that you are aware of that would prohibit mixing FIPS and non-FIPS entropy and encryption techniques as described above?
It’s turtles all the way down.
CPUs are “Enabled” and listed as a successful operation by NSA. Standards which are implemented in hardware and software are similarly backdoored. Protocols are designed to leak enough information to exploit various things at various levels. The new push to post-quantum without using mandatory hybrid constructions that include something we at least strongly believe to be (contemporarily) secure means that we should expect problems at literally every level from hardware to the newest key exchange mechanisms.
Can we theoretically build a baroque machine that combines something we trust with something we explicitly assume is compromised? Sure, and I like XOR as much as the next cryptographically knowledgeable person.
Should we? No, absolutely not. More importantly, will everyone who is required to use FIPS? Certainly not. Is it even allowed by auditors? Doubtful but maybe you can become one and bless your own solution. It’s still not a solution for everyone, not even close.
At the point where we start to even try, might we ask ourselves why we tolerate NSA and NIST doing this to the American public? Why don’t we understand what they planned to do when someone like you proposed things like you have done? After all, there is no question that NSA was playing the long game - they just believed their own NOBUS propaganda. Whoops.