It starts at $1,449.00 for 1080p screen, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSD.
Why would the average user buy this over the M2 Air?
Average user = Not doing anything that requires Windows or Linux.
M2 Air has a better screen, faster CPU (plugged or unplugged), faster GPU, more battery life, fanless, runs cooler, better speakers, thinner, and it's cheaper.
Also, I think not having function keys is a mistake. Touch keys are just awful on a keyboard. In addition, if you want to do even light gaming, you'd want function keys
You answered your own question. Non-Linux users already have plenty of options e.g. M2 Air.
If I need a high-performance laptop with Linux---and especially if extended distribution support is important---I'd be wiser to go with the first one certified against the latest LTS rather than trying to convince a "built for Windows" laptop to work: one expected to provide full ACPI access/control, a working fingerprint reader, S/PDIF, a working graphics stack, performance optimizations.
As one example: If you're a university robotics program, it makes sense to get 20 of these at the B2B price tier for your incoming students and they'll >>just work<< for the entire duration of someone's graduate degree and beyond. (Unless something changed recently, Northwestern does this.)
As far as function keys, I also hate capacitive buttons ever since having a touch bar on a work computer. Using vim, you're constantly pressing the glass... nothing corner.
For laptops, it is sensible to default the top row to various controls (brightness, media keys, airplane mode, etc.) rather than F1, F2, etc. But once you have a dedicated Fn key, why not make F1 = Fn + 1, F2 = Fn + 2, etc.? It would take a week of getting used to but makes the most sense---especially if your top row of "real buttons" is now the number keys.
it is sensible to default the top row to various controls
No, it's not. I'm hitting F4, F5, F5, F10 way, way more often than I change the brightness (ones in a while), volume (more often but NOT EVERY GODDAMN MINUTE) or ExternalOutput (nowadays - never).
I understand the tradeoff is all I mean. In fact, probably the biggest win is the BIOS setting that lets you choose whether you want function keys or media keys, since each user chooses their preference.
Your use case is definitely different than mine. I constantly want to adjust volume or mute when someone walks in or adjust brightness if I'm in the dark. The only time I really need function keys are in OpenSCAD and maybe once or twice a day in other programs. If I'm doing a lot of batch edits in vim, I'll nnoremap to the function keys if I have a full keyboard. For closing a window, it's almost always Ctrl+W or Ctrl+Shift+W, for refresh it's Ctrl+R, etc.
That's great, but if Ctrl+R is for refresh, what combo you would use for 'Rename'? To get to the address bar? To view a file in `mc`? Dev tools in browser?
And the thing is, this is a muscle memory from almost the three decades of usage[0]. I don't have a problem hitting Fn+F1/F2/F3 for Mute/Vol-/Vol+ but I would have a problem if hitting F5 would turn off my WiFi.
And by the way - I have big hands but even I struggle to hit Fn+F12/whatever key on the top right. Therefore I bought a laptop with a second Fn key.
[0] Edit: and most of them are in CUA or de-facto standard ones. I still hit Ctrl+Ins/Shift+Ins sometimes. Not on the modern laptop keyboards, of course...
You answered your own question. Non-Linux users already have plenty of options e.g. M2 Air.
The Apple Silicon hardware is so good, it should make Linux users rethink being Linux users. At least until Asahi Linux has decent hardware support, but even then Linux just doesn't cut it in terms of UI.
If you already use and like Linux, MacOS doesn't cut it in terms of UI. ;)
Minor performance and power efficiency gains aren't worth putting up with Apple's software and hardware limitations IMO. I like having full control of the UI, I like having the ability to swap out the SSD and not need to pay $200 for 512GB at time of purchase. I like being able to use 2 external monitors. And to have screen size options bigger than 13" that cost less than $2000
Linux's UI (if you can refer to such a singular thing) is actually the number one reason that makes it more difficult to move to Macs. Sway/i3 is vastly superior to MacOS UI in almost every way.
edit for me, obviously, not necessarily for everyone
(this is an attempt at Cunningham's Law, if anyone had an actual solution I would love to hear it).
OSX window management is...horrendous. I want to be able to have two monitors and simply (with a keypress) move a window to either screen, or to use half of a given screen. Both windows and Linux WMs get this right. In OSX you have (or had last time I tried) two "fullscreen" buttons. One blue button, which maybe made it full screen, but most often just filled the height. Cause it decided that you wanted to see 3cm of the desktop background.... And then some apps, but not all, had a little arrow on the right which made it super-fullscreen! But then it made a virtual desktop, and screw whatever you had on the other screen. And using anything but the mouse? Lol forget it.
I see I sound like I want a flamewar. I don't. I want to buy the M2, but first be told that apple has fixed its shitty UX since last time I tried:-P
It works very well, a native version would probably be better but most of the time I don’t notice it’s running, just press the keyboard shortcuts and move on. There’s also tiling WMs that go deeper, but I haven’t needed them.
Also no ContextMenu key and no way to hold it with one hand (because the keyboard takes all width and doesn't have a border).
Now imagine you are standing, holding it on the palm of one hand and... now you need to press Fn (leftmost part of the keyboard), RCtrl (rightmost part) and touchable F10. All with one hand.
The same reason people pay $700 for a samsung phone instead of an iphone. They know windows and some may not like apple but most just go to the store and get what is there. I looked to buy an apple product last year and went to every store I could find nearby including walmart, target and microcenter. Bestbuy and the apple store were closed because of covid at the time. None had an apple laptop to sell me let along an M1/2. Apple would make a lot more money if it sold at more retail stores but they make too much money I guess?
I looked to buy an apple product last year and went to every store I could find nearby including walmart, target and microcenter. Bestbuy and the apple store were closed because of covid at the time. None had an apple laptop to sell me let along an M1/2.
You could have it ordered within ten minutes and delivered within a few days. Also, you can custom-configure Macs ordered online, whereas only a few specific configurations are sold at retail.
I can think of a few things, such as official Ubuntu support, better support for multiple displays, ability to run x86 apps including windows and games.
And also not overheating like the m2 does, but honestly at this point who knows if the dell doesn't have the same problem...
I can think of a few things, such as official Ubuntu support, better support for multiple displays, ability to run x86 apps including windows and games.
Hence, the "average user". Also, I wouldn't try to play games on the Dell as it has a weaker GPU and no function keys.
And also not overheating like the m2 does, but honestly at this point who knows if the dell doesn't have the same problem...
M2 does not "overheat". It throttles like any CPU. It should still run cooler, faster, quieter than the Dell.
The M2 is significantly slower in multithreaded compared to the mid-range Dell XPS 13 Plus and a miniscule amount faster in single threaded. You can see this list: https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-list/cinebench-scores
But in addition the M2 air runs hotter. They both throttle. But the M2 reaches over 100 degrees.
It's not the same cinebench version so the scores are not directly comparable but the stability is. The M2 settles to around 7300 with the initial score being 8551. That gives a stability of 85%. About the same as the XPS.
Anyway if you want a fast ultra portable neither Apple nor Intel are good choices. You have to get an and MAD 6000 series laptop.
The M2 is significantly slower in multithreaded compared to the mid-range Dell XPS 13 Plus and a miniscule amount faster in single threaded. You can see this list: https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-list/cinebench-scores
But in addition the M2 air runs hotter. They both throttle. But the M2 reaches over 100 degrees.
I used an M1 Air for over a year. While it can get hot if you run it a maximum, it runs extremely cool for being fanless on normal workloads. Most people aren't pushing their laptops to the max.
That XPS 13 plus settles at around a continuous cinebench scores of ~1515. While the first run was 1795. That means it has a stability of about 84%.
Again, Cinebench is a terrible CPU benchmark.
Anyway if you want a fast ultra portable neither Apple nor Intel are good choices. You have to get an and MAD 6000 series laptop.
Simply not true. Both Intel and Apple offer faster laptop chips than AMD.
Cinebench is a terrible CPU benchmark. Geekbench is far better.
People do not run a single benchmark tool when comparing hardware, they use multiple. Each with their own well defined characteristics and make their own conclusions depending on what matters to them.
Cinebench is part of almost every hardware review for a good reason: its characteristics (CPU only, not dependent on cache, memory speeds nor timings) are well understood and provide valuable information on a specific aspect of the hardware.
People do not run a single benchmark tool when comparing hardware, they use multiple.
Most Youtubers base the performance of the CPU on Cinebench. They definitely aren't Anandtech, where CPU is measured with SPEC.
Cinebench is part of almost every hardware review for a good reason: its characteristics (CPU only, not dependent on cache, memory speeds nor timings) are well understood and provide valuable information on a specific aspect of the hardware.
Cinebench is being used as an end all CPU benchmark too often. Just look at the author I replied to.
Again, if one were to use one single benchmark to denote the performance of a CPU, they should use SPEC. Absent of SPEC, they should use Geekbench. Cinebench is pretty far down the list.
I didn't use it as a benchmarking tool. I don't care about the relatively numbers between CPUs or even what performance it represents. I only referenced the throttling behavior. I could as well have used a simple C program that adds floating points together as fast as possible.
People tend to focus on raw performance and then pretend the Dell has no fans. I'd take a bit slower laptop but dead silent over a minute faster one whirring like a jet engine.
The biggest source of thermal issue comes from discrete graphics (nvidia) in powered state. Disabling it (which I know can be tricky on linux) or opting for a machine with integrated graphics solves it.
As for the CPU you get to pick your poison. With hyper-threading and turbo-boost, fans will be spinning most of the time. If you disable both you get 100% passive cooling.
Comments
It starts at $1,449.00 for 1080p screen, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSD. Why would the average user buy this over the M2 Air?
Average user = Not doing anything that requires Windows or Linux.
M2 Air has a better screen, faster CPU (plugged or unplugged), faster GPU, more battery life, fanless, runs cooler, better speakers, thinner, and it's cheaper.
Also, I think not having function keys is a mistake. Touch keys are just awful on a keyboard. In addition, if you want to do even light gaming, you'd want function keys
You answered your own question. Non-Linux users already have plenty of options e.g. M2 Air.
If I need a high-performance laptop with Linux---and especially if extended distribution support is important---I'd be wiser to go with the first one certified against the latest LTS rather than trying to convince a "built for Windows" laptop to work: one expected to provide full ACPI access/control, a working fingerprint reader, S/PDIF, a working graphics stack, performance optimizations.
As one example: If you're a university robotics program, it makes sense to get 20 of these at the B2B price tier for your incoming students and they'll >>just work<< for the entire duration of someone's graduate degree and beyond. (Unless something changed recently, Northwestern does this.)
As far as function keys, I also hate capacitive buttons ever since having a touch bar on a work computer. Using vim, you're constantly pressing the glass... nothing corner.
For laptops, it is sensible to default the top row to various controls (brightness, media keys, airplane mode, etc.) rather than F1, F2, etc. But once you have a dedicated Fn key, why not make F1 = Fn + 1, F2 = Fn + 2, etc.? It would take a week of getting used to but makes the most sense---especially if your top row of "real buttons" is now the number keys.
No, it's not. I'm hitting F4, F5, F5, F10 way, way more often than I change the brightness (ones in a while), volume (more often but NOT EVERY GODDAMN MINUTE) or ExternalOutput (nowadays - never).
I understand the tradeoff is all I mean. In fact, probably the biggest win is the BIOS setting that lets you choose whether you want function keys or media keys, since each user chooses their preference.
Your use case is definitely different than mine. I constantly want to adjust volume or mute when someone walks in or adjust brightness if I'm in the dark. The only time I really need function keys are in OpenSCAD and maybe once or twice a day in other programs. If I'm doing a lot of batch edits in vim, I'll nnoremap to the function keys if I have a full keyboard. For closing a window, it's almost always Ctrl+W or Ctrl+Shift+W, for refresh it's Ctrl+R, etc.
That's great, but if Ctrl+R is for refresh, what combo you would use for 'Rename'? To get to the address bar? To view a file in `mc`? Dev tools in browser?
And the thing is, this is a muscle memory from almost the three decades of usage[0]. I don't have a problem hitting Fn+F1/F2/F3 for Mute/Vol-/Vol+ but I would have a problem if hitting F5 would turn off my WiFi.
And by the way - I have big hands but even I struggle to hit Fn+F12/whatever key on the top right. Therefore I bought a laptop with a second Fn key.
[0] Edit: and most of them are in CUA or de-facto standard ones. I still hit Ctrl+Ins/Shift+Ins sometimes. Not on the modern laptop keyboards, of course...
The Apple Silicon hardware is so good, it should make Linux users rethink being Linux users. At least until Asahi Linux has decent hardware support, but even then Linux just doesn't cut it in terms of UI.
If you already use and like Linux, MacOS doesn't cut it in terms of UI. ;)
Minor performance and power efficiency gains aren't worth putting up with Apple's software and hardware limitations IMO. I like having full control of the UI, I like having the ability to swap out the SSD and not need to pay $200 for 512GB at time of purchase. I like being able to use 2 external monitors. And to have screen size options bigger than 13" that cost less than $2000
Linux's UI (if you can refer to such a singular thing) is actually the number one reason that makes it more difficult to move to Macs. Sway/i3 is vastly superior to MacOS UI in almost every way.
edit for me, obviously, not necessarily for everyone
(this is an attempt at Cunningham's Law, if anyone had an actual solution I would love to hear it).
OSX window management is...horrendous. I want to be able to have two monitors and simply (with a keypress) move a window to either screen, or to use half of a given screen. Both windows and Linux WMs get this right. In OSX you have (or had last time I tried) two "fullscreen" buttons. One blue button, which maybe made it full screen, but most often just filled the height. Cause it decided that you wanted to see 3cm of the desktop background.... And then some apps, but not all, had a little arrow on the right which made it super-fullscreen! But then it made a virtual desktop, and screw whatever you had on the other screen. And using anything but the mouse? Lol forget it.
I see I sound like I want a flamewar. I don't. I want to buy the M2, but first be told that apple has fixed its shitty UX since last time I tried:-P
There’s a utility called Rectangle that does this: https://rectangleapp.com/
It works very well, a native version would probably be better but most of the time I don’t notice it’s running, just press the keyboard shortcuts and move on. There’s also tiling WMs that go deeper, but I haven’t needed them.
Makes sure I won't buy it never.
Also no ContextMenu key and no way to hold it with one hand (because the keyboard takes all width and doesn't have a border).
Now imagine you are standing, holding it on the palm of one hand and... now you need to press Fn (leftmost part of the keyboard), RCtrl (rightmost part) and touchable F10. All with one hand.
The same reason people pay $700 for a samsung phone instead of an iphone. They know windows and some may not like apple but most just go to the store and get what is there. I looked to buy an apple product last year and went to every store I could find nearby including walmart, target and microcenter. Bestbuy and the apple store were closed because of covid at the time. None had an apple laptop to sell me let along an M1/2. Apple would make a lot more money if it sold at more retail stores but they make too much money I guess?
Amazon disagrees. Perhaps you should have saved time and fuel and shopped online?
Then I would have to wait for it to arrive and deal with delivery people, returns,etc...
Still sounds easier than running around.
It isn't. Plus I get to pay in cash at a store and look at the product and handle it a bit before making a decision.
You could have it ordered within ten minutes and delivered within a few days. Also, you can custom-configure Macs ordered online, whereas only a few specific configurations are sold at retail.
The M2 Air supports only one external display. Based on that alone, nearly any other laptop looks better to me.
If we’re back at the average user I doubt they use an external display at all.
Does the average user even own a computer? Or do the mostly use their work laptop and phone/tablet for personal things (my wife)
Every home laptop user I know only uses their laptop screen. At most they'll use an external mouse.
M2 air is faster on paper.Unfortunately it's incredibly thermally limited. So I doubt it's better then the XPS 13 plus
Test any Intel or AMD laptop unplugged.
When your work only has a few approved vendors but doesn't care what the cost is even if a M2 would be cheaper :(
I can think of a few things, such as official Ubuntu support, better support for multiple displays, ability to run x86 apps including windows and games.
And also not overheating like the m2 does, but honestly at this point who knows if the dell doesn't have the same problem...
Hence, the "average user". Also, I wouldn't try to play games on the Dell as it has a weaker GPU and no function keys.
M2 does not "overheat". It throttles like any CPU. It should still run cooler, faster, quieter than the Dell.
The M2 is significantly slower in multithreaded compared to the mid-range Dell XPS 13 Plus and a miniscule amount faster in single threaded. You can see this list: https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-list/cinebench-scores
But in addition the M2 air runs hotter. They both throttle. But the M2 reaches over 100 degrees.
You can see in this review: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/56837-dell-xps-13-plus-9320-...
That XPS 13 plus settles at around a continuous cinebench scores of ~1515. While the first run was 1795. That means it has a stability of about 84%.
In contrast look at the M2 Air: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15V44ovoUWE&t=8m2s
It's not the same cinebench version so the scores are not directly comparable but the stability is. The M2 settles to around 7300 with the initial score being 8551. That gives a stability of 85%. About the same as the XPS.
Anyway if you want a fast ultra portable neither Apple nor Intel are good choices. You have to get an and MAD 6000 series laptop.
Cinebench is a terrible CPU benchmark. Geekbench is far better. https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/pitid6/eli5_why_d...
I used an M1 Air for over a year. While it can get hot if you run it a maximum, it runs extremely cool for being fanless on normal workloads. Most people aren't pushing their laptops to the max.
Again, Cinebench is a terrible CPU benchmark.
Simply not true. Both Intel and Apple offer faster laptop chips than AMD.
People do not run a single benchmark tool when comparing hardware, they use multiple. Each with their own well defined characteristics and make their own conclusions depending on what matters to them.
Cinebench is part of almost every hardware review for a good reason: its characteristics (CPU only, not dependent on cache, memory speeds nor timings) are well understood and provide valuable information on a specific aspect of the hardware.
Most Youtubers base the performance of the CPU on Cinebench. They definitely aren't Anandtech, where CPU is measured with SPEC.
Cinebench is being used as an end all CPU benchmark too often. Just look at the author I replied to.
Again, if one were to use one single benchmark to denote the performance of a CPU, they should use SPEC. Absent of SPEC, they should use Geekbench. Cinebench is pretty far down the list.
I didn't use it as a benchmarking tool. I don't care about the relatively numbers between CPUs or even what performance it represents. I only referenced the throttling behavior. I could as well have used a simple C program that adds floating points together as fast as possible.
People tend to focus on raw performance and then pretend the Dell has no fans. I'd take a bit slower laptop but dead silent over a minute faster one whirring like a jet engine.
Maybe M2 Air will be slower, but good enough and XPS 13 Plus will probably wake up your neighbours with its fans spinning like crazy.
If you care about fan noise then the M2 is better. I personally so don't see much added value in having no fan noise. But that's personal preference.
Everybody who ever had a Dell knows it has the same problem but much worse...
I have had various XPS 15 and I don't agree.
The biggest source of thermal issue comes from discrete graphics (nvidia) in powered state. Disabling it (which I know can be tricky on linux) or opting for a machine with integrated graphics solves it.
As for the CPU you get to pick your poison. With hyper-threading and turbo-boost, fans will be spinning most of the time. If you disable both you get 100% passive cooling.
If I disabled both, the computer (which had i9) got less usable than my current fanless M1 Air.