Man, I could write volumes regarding meeting people. I made a study of it because I was very interested. Now I should put it into practice. I was just too disorganized/lazy to take my own advice.
First of all, organizing things that others will enjoy is certainly a great way. But you also have to motivate people to bring their friends, otherwise you'll always be seeing the same people. People bring their friends when there is something they really want them to experience, so that's what you should focus on.
Also, meeting people is a great way to realize that you can outsource responsibilities to others, something that can actually "scale". Often this allows you to network to the right people. The key here is not to be perfect, and not to put too much responsibility on yourself. For example, you want to bring together two groups of people (men and women, say, or investors and entrepreneurs) that would really like to meet each other. You want to cultivate an aura of quality (i.e. the men and women are exceptionally attractive for whatever reason) and selectiveness in order to inspire people to perpetuate this selectiveness and recommend it to their friends. Suddenly the experience is created not just by you, but by this self perpetuating aura of exclusivity.
Being the facilitator and helping people meet each other actually gets you a lot of points, which you can use later when you need a favor yourself.
If you're coming as a guest, though, there is a real economics that starts happening, and a currency. Perhaps it is unfortunate from an idealistic point of view, but that's the way it works in many conferences, nightclubs, etc.
In general, though, if you want to come to events as a guest, you probably want to be invited either by the organizer or by a regular. If it's the organizer, you'd ideally like to bring some "high quality" friends to the event (such as fellow smart engineers) and introduce them to the organizer, so the organizer will want to invite you again.
Additionally you can form a little "group" that tells each other about events and invites each other. At these events, when you talk to someone important, you can tout the other people in the group instead of bragging about yourself, and they would do the same for you. As a result, you are able to meet many more people through your "network" who is out there meeting people in 10 different places and filtering them for you, because you yourself can be in only one place at a time.
How to start motivating people you know to start networking wherever they are and mentioning you when the opportunity comes up? You have to start doing it for them first. Ask for their business cards. You have to hook people up with opportunities and then ask them to go out and do the same for you. Give them your business cards.
I felt the same way for a long time. But you have to ask, to good things happen for you because the world is fair, or because you are a rainmaker, or because you are lucky enough that a rainmaker loves you?
My parents were rainmakers, which was great except that I took too long to realize it, including the time I spent at one of the most rewarding networking-intensive organizations in the world, and I refused to network.
Eventually I realized that I was taking advantage of a social structure that someone built for me, but I wasn't helping builds it further. At first, I was just guilty of a self-centered selfishness. Later, the free ride slowed down. Now it is up to me to help the wheels turn, or just coast to a stop. Networking isn't evil. It is a tool you can use for good or evil. Networks are not free, but they can tolerate someone free riding temporarily.
You once had to learn to use a toilet and wash dishes and write thank-you notes, too. If you don't do directly yourself, you depend on someone to slaughter animals or pull vegetableout out of the ground (someone who expects something on return) that all disgusting and fake?
Elaborate on what? It's perfectly possible to live a happy life without putting an ounce of effort into actively networking. You meet people through happenstance without ever thinking "how can I use this person". We don't all look at other people as means to an end.
I don't recommend people because I hope they'll recommend me back or because I'm thinking about building a social structure; I do it if and when it'd help the person I'm recommending them to if and when it'd be natural to do so.
Watching you guys talk about building the social structure and networking reminds me of watching a psychopath try to fit in with normal people and learn when it's appropriate to smile or fake emotion. You're talking about actively learning to manipulate people to your advantage, I just don't find that cool, even if it is to everyone's advantage.
I thought this way for a while too, although not about everything. Actually some things can be really fake while others are actually simply thoughtful! It's the way you are taught to think about it.
Let me give you a small example. You know about etiquette right? In every country it's different. Are you manipulating people because you behave differently at Church/Synagogue/etc. and in a bar, or with your parents, or at a dinner table? Are you manipulating people by trying to learn their language and making sure you talk about what's important to THEM an not just whats important to you? I am sure that put this way, you think it's actually all good things. Yet, once we start going further and looking at it more mechanically, it starts to seem disgusting to you and to many people. Perhaps it has to do with the Uncanny Valley actually. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
Here is the thing. You want people to not be systematic and strategic to a large extent when meeting other people, except where everyone in society is already being shamed into doing it. Why? I think it is because when someone becomes systematic and strategic, then any particular interaction seems like it's just a pawn in a larger scheme, doesn't mean as much to the one being strategic, and for the most part this is unfortunately true. On the other hand, greater mastery over a domain lets you make better moves, and over time gives you more connections and more experience so that you can actually HELP people in ways you couldn't before. An experienced salesman can sell your pretty good product that you couldn't sell yourself, and you can rely on him to do so, even though you might think his sales tactics are "scammy" at first blush. A person who knows a lot of people after many years is able to connect you to the right people even though they have such a large network that you can't possibly imagine they have close relationships with most of them, yet they help you and you appreciate it. Winston Churchill made sure to remember the name and interests of each person he spoke to at dinners. Is he being manipulative and strategic? Maybe. But people loved him.
I think the bottom line here is this: forget the "stigma" that society forces you to attach to actually putting thought and strategy into achieving things when it comes to meeting people, organizing things, etc. If you are producing a result that HELPS EVERYONE INVOLVED, then you are actually doing a good thing. The litmus test is, if you encountered someone who was a master at what you are trying to do, would you be HAPPY that they did this to you, or NOT happy?
I think most of it is about being aware of what the other person really needs and wants, and working to give it to them. For example when a nightclub promoter invites you (a guy) what he really would like is for you to bring a girl or two to the event, so more alcohol will be sold. If you don't, he may be glad you came but ultimately if you did, he would be way happier because you are helping him. You may say, "well, you USED the girls to get more points with the promoter". But you also USED the promoter to help the girls! They all get free drinks and a great time, and meet more people. And they also think you are a cool guy that they had a great time with that night. So everyone wants to see you again.
Look at the suggestion at the end of my post. Do you really consider it creepy that you take your friends' business cards, ask them who they are desperately looking to meet, and actually talk them up to people whenever you feel that you might make a good match? And then ask your friends to do the same once you have made some results for them? Is it weird that you have a group of guys who remember to meet girls for their friends and invite them all to a big house party so they can introduce their friends and generally hang out and have a good time? Is "every man for himself" the only non fake strategy? Or is it actually MORE fake? The guy has to generate all the social proof out of thin air, and at the end of the day, the first strategy attracts people far more, because a group of cool people who respect each other is more attractive. Why not be part of one.
> A person who knows a lot of people after many years is able to connect you to the right people even though they have such a large network that you can't possibly imagine they have close relationships with most of them
Yes, and I've met many people like that, and I never like any of them. They're all fake users of other people. They become people you only care to talk to when you need something and you know they probably know someone. Useful, sure, but people I want to ever hang out with, nope.
Worse, if you're not careful, they're constantly giving your name to people who just want to use you for some purpose thinking you'll help for free because they know so and so.
> Do you really consider it creepy that you take your friends' business cards, ask them who they are desperately looking to meet, and actually talk them up to people whenever you feel that you might make a good match?
Yes. That kind of thing should happen naturally, because I actually want to do it, it would bother me if someone asked me to talk them up.
> For example when a nightclub promoter invites you (a guy) what he really would like is for you to bring a girl or two to the event, so more alcohol will be sold.
I don't think you're relating well to hackers. Such a thing has never and likely will never in my life happen. I've never even met a night club promoter, and if I did, I wouldn't be interested in talking to him anyway, nor would I go to a night club.
> Is it weird that you have a group of guys who remember to meet girls for their friends and invite them all to a big house party so they can introduce their friends and generally hang out and have a good time?
Yes, again, I would never go to a house party full of people I don't know, wouldn't care to, wouldn't enjoy it.
You're clearly an extrovert and don't seem to understand none of this sounds at all appealing to introverts. You all sound fake and creepy and I'd be bothered to even think you had a strategy for generating social proof.
> Why not be part of one.
Because I wouldn't like people who behaved that way. They're fake, annoying, think they have 100 friends when they don't really know what the word means, and they use everyone around them. These are not attractive people to me. Write me an article on meeting people that I actually like and then I'm interested. Meeting people should be about quality, not quantity.
Quality comes later. You do this kind of thing to get ahead in a certain world where you want to achieve something that you wouldn't normally achieve if you did things, as you say, "naturally".
Like I said you can be creepy and a "user" if you do it only for yourself. Or you can focus on helping people and connecting them like Ron Conway for example. It happens in all sorts of human interactions.
You say you would never go to a house party full of people you don't know. Would you go to one that has lots of people you do know -- i.e. your friends?
Let me ask you something ... as an introvert, how do you plan to meet someone e.g. a girl you are attracted to, if your immediate circle of friends wouldn't introduce you to one? How do you meet people if you never go to events full of people you don't know?
Actors in hollywood, etc. have to hustle and make connections. Same goes for musicians, comedians any other performing art. They can't ALL be creepy can they?
What I can tell you is this. A lot of people you meet who make you feel good do it by having empathy and UNDERSTANDING where you are coming from. If you do this systematically with everyone (e.g. think about what a promoter would appreciate before coming to the party) then you aren't being creepy, you are being considerate. And people like that. Yes, this generates social proof, but that's the next level. You generate things bigger than yourself. Just because you are able to "hack" the system doesn't mean you're a bad person, if you are helping everyone.
> You do this kind of thing to get ahead in a certain world where you want to achieve something that you wouldn't normally achieve if you did things, as you say, "naturally".
I don't want to live in that world.
> You say you would never go to a house party full of people you don't know. Would you go to one that has lots of people you do know -- i.e. your friends?
Certainly. New people are fine in moderation, I'd just never go to a party full of strangers. It'd be no fun at all.
> Let me ask you something ... as an introvert, how do you plan to meet someone e.g. a girl you are attracted to, if your immediate circle of friends wouldn't introduce you to one? How do you meet people if you never go to events full of people you don't know?
You don't have to actively seek to attempt to introduce new people to your social circles to run into them anyway. You meet friends of friends without it being planned. You meet new people when following your own interests as a side effect without meeting new people being the goal.
> Actors in hollywood, etc. have to hustle and make connections. Same goes for musicians, comedians any other performing art. They can't ALL be creepy can they?
Yea, they pretty much are, because they're always selling something, always trying to use you in one way or another to forward their cause; it's annoying, insulting, self centered, and causes many introverts to avoid these types of people all together.
> If you do this systematically with everyone (e.g. think about what a promoter would appreciate before coming to the party) then you aren't being creepy, you are being considerate
I agree with that. But if you're being considerate while also thinking how can I use this to my advantage, then it's no longer considerate even though it appears to be. To me it's not your actions that make something considerate, it's your intentions.
If I met someone who consistently helped me out here and there, but I also noticed that every time, it also helped him out in some way then I would no longer consider what he does friendly, I'd consider it manipulative and avoid socializing with that person. Real friends help you even when it's not to their benefit, not just when it's convenient to them.
This is all just how I feel of course, but I doubt I'm alone in this regard. I'm sure many introverts feel the same.
What you are talking about here is rather meeting people for business or business-related purposes and for furthering your own career and especially your personal gain; this isn't just "meeting people" and find personal friends, this is social networking and working it.
Comments
Man, I could write volumes regarding meeting people. I made a study of it because I was very interested. Now I should put it into practice. I was just too disorganized/lazy to take my own advice.
First of all, organizing things that others will enjoy is certainly a great way. But you also have to motivate people to bring their friends, otherwise you'll always be seeing the same people. People bring their friends when there is something they really want them to experience, so that's what you should focus on.
Also, meeting people is a great way to realize that you can outsource responsibilities to others, something that can actually "scale". Often this allows you to network to the right people. The key here is not to be perfect, and not to put too much responsibility on yourself. For example, you want to bring together two groups of people (men and women, say, or investors and entrepreneurs) that would really like to meet each other. You want to cultivate an aura of quality (i.e. the men and women are exceptionally attractive for whatever reason) and selectiveness in order to inspire people to perpetuate this selectiveness and recommend it to their friends. Suddenly the experience is created not just by you, but by this self perpetuating aura of exclusivity.
Being the facilitator and helping people meet each other actually gets you a lot of points, which you can use later when you need a favor yourself.
If you're coming as a guest, though, there is a real economics that starts happening, and a currency. Perhaps it is unfortunate from an idealistic point of view, but that's the way it works in many conferences, nightclubs, etc.
In general, though, if you want to come to events as a guest, you probably want to be invited either by the organizer or by a regular. If it's the organizer, you'd ideally like to bring some "high quality" friends to the event (such as fellow smart engineers) and introduce them to the organizer, so the organizer will want to invite you again.
Additionally you can form a little "group" that tells each other about events and invites each other. At these events, when you talk to someone important, you can tout the other people in the group instead of bragging about yourself, and they would do the same for you. As a result, you are able to meet many more people through your "network" who is out there meeting people in 10 different places and filtering them for you, because you yourself can be in only one place at a time.
How to start motivating people you know to start networking wherever they are and mentioning you when the opportunity comes up? You have to start doing it for them first. Ask for their business cards. You have to hook people up with opportunities and then ask them to go out and do the same for you. Give them your business cards.
That all sounds rather discusting and fake. If that's what most people do, I don't want to know them.
I felt the same way for a long time. But you have to ask, to good things happen for you because the world is fair, or because you are a rainmaker, or because you are lucky enough that a rainmaker loves you?
My parents were rainmakers, which was great except that I took too long to realize it, including the time I spent at one of the most rewarding networking-intensive organizations in the world, and I refused to network.
Eventually I realized that I was taking advantage of a social structure that someone built for me, but I wasn't helping builds it further. At first, I was just guilty of a self-centered selfishness. Later, the free ride slowed down. Now it is up to me to help the wheels turn, or just coast to a stop. Networking isn't evil. It is a tool you can use for good or evil. Networks are not free, but they can tolerate someone free riding temporarily.
You once had to learn to use a toilet and wash dishes and write thank-you notes, too. If you don't do directly yourself, you depend on someone to slaughter animals or pull vegetableout out of the ground (someone who expects something on return) that all disgusting and fake?
This all presumes networking is necessary; it isn't. I don't have to do it at all.
Care to elaborate? OR you (think) don't have to do that either? :)
Elaborate on what? It's perfectly possible to live a happy life without putting an ounce of effort into actively networking. You meet people through happenstance without ever thinking "how can I use this person". We don't all look at other people as means to an end.
I don't recommend people because I hope they'll recommend me back or because I'm thinking about building a social structure; I do it if and when it'd help the person I'm recommending them to if and when it'd be natural to do so.
Watching you guys talk about building the social structure and networking reminds me of watching a psychopath try to fit in with normal people and learn when it's appropriate to smile or fake emotion. You're talking about actively learning to manipulate people to your advantage, I just don't find that cool, even if it is to everyone's advantage.
well said :)
Many people do that, but that's not the structure or intent around it at all. When you meet someone you like and find out their interests/passions:
- when you meet someone else with similar interests/passions, introduce them.
- when you see an article that would spark their interest, share it.
- when you see an event that fits them, pass it along.
- when you see them, ask about how their projects are going.
It's not out of some crappy "I want to network" motivation, but because you like them. And generally we want to help & encourage the people we like.
That I do, that's not what he's describing to me.
It is written like an alien studying human interaction. Some of what was written is decent advice but it comes off as off-putting.
What is off putting is calling someone an alien and disgusting.
Actually, I agree with him, it's written like a study of human's and it comes off very disgusting.
I thought this way for a while too, although not about everything. Actually some things can be really fake while others are actually simply thoughtful! It's the way you are taught to think about it.
Let me give you a small example. You know about etiquette right? In every country it's different. Are you manipulating people because you behave differently at Church/Synagogue/etc. and in a bar, or with your parents, or at a dinner table? Are you manipulating people by trying to learn their language and making sure you talk about what's important to THEM an not just whats important to you? I am sure that put this way, you think it's actually all good things. Yet, once we start going further and looking at it more mechanically, it starts to seem disgusting to you and to many people. Perhaps it has to do with the Uncanny Valley actually. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
Here is the thing. You want people to not be systematic and strategic to a large extent when meeting other people, except where everyone in society is already being shamed into doing it. Why? I think it is because when someone becomes systematic and strategic, then any particular interaction seems like it's just a pawn in a larger scheme, doesn't mean as much to the one being strategic, and for the most part this is unfortunately true. On the other hand, greater mastery over a domain lets you make better moves, and over time gives you more connections and more experience so that you can actually HELP people in ways you couldn't before. An experienced salesman can sell your pretty good product that you couldn't sell yourself, and you can rely on him to do so, even though you might think his sales tactics are "scammy" at first blush. A person who knows a lot of people after many years is able to connect you to the right people even though they have such a large network that you can't possibly imagine they have close relationships with most of them, yet they help you and you appreciate it. Winston Churchill made sure to remember the name and interests of each person he spoke to at dinners. Is he being manipulative and strategic? Maybe. But people loved him.
I think the bottom line here is this: forget the "stigma" that society forces you to attach to actually putting thought and strategy into achieving things when it comes to meeting people, organizing things, etc. If you are producing a result that HELPS EVERYONE INVOLVED, then you are actually doing a good thing. The litmus test is, if you encountered someone who was a master at what you are trying to do, would you be HAPPY that they did this to you, or NOT happy?
I think most of it is about being aware of what the other person really needs and wants, and working to give it to them. For example when a nightclub promoter invites you (a guy) what he really would like is for you to bring a girl or two to the event, so more alcohol will be sold. If you don't, he may be glad you came but ultimately if you did, he would be way happier because you are helping him. You may say, "well, you USED the girls to get more points with the promoter". But you also USED the promoter to help the girls! They all get free drinks and a great time, and meet more people. And they also think you are a cool guy that they had a great time with that night. So everyone wants to see you again.
Look at the suggestion at the end of my post. Do you really consider it creepy that you take your friends' business cards, ask them who they are desperately looking to meet, and actually talk them up to people whenever you feel that you might make a good match? And then ask your friends to do the same once you have made some results for them? Is it weird that you have a group of guys who remember to meet girls for their friends and invite them all to a big house party so they can introduce their friends and generally hang out and have a good time? Is "every man for himself" the only non fake strategy? Or is it actually MORE fake? The guy has to generate all the social proof out of thin air, and at the end of the day, the first strategy attracts people far more, because a group of cool people who respect each other is more attractive. Why not be part of one.
> A person who knows a lot of people after many years is able to connect you to the right people even though they have such a large network that you can't possibly imagine they have close relationships with most of them
Yes, and I've met many people like that, and I never like any of them. They're all fake users of other people. They become people you only care to talk to when you need something and you know they probably know someone. Useful, sure, but people I want to ever hang out with, nope.
Worse, if you're not careful, they're constantly giving your name to people who just want to use you for some purpose thinking you'll help for free because they know so and so.
> Do you really consider it creepy that you take your friends' business cards, ask them who they are desperately looking to meet, and actually talk them up to people whenever you feel that you might make a good match?
Yes. That kind of thing should happen naturally, because I actually want to do it, it would bother me if someone asked me to talk them up.
> For example when a nightclub promoter invites you (a guy) what he really would like is for you to bring a girl or two to the event, so more alcohol will be sold.
I don't think you're relating well to hackers. Such a thing has never and likely will never in my life happen. I've never even met a night club promoter, and if I did, I wouldn't be interested in talking to him anyway, nor would I go to a night club.
> Is it weird that you have a group of guys who remember to meet girls for their friends and invite them all to a big house party so they can introduce their friends and generally hang out and have a good time?
Yes, again, I would never go to a house party full of people I don't know, wouldn't care to, wouldn't enjoy it.
You're clearly an extrovert and don't seem to understand none of this sounds at all appealing to introverts. You all sound fake and creepy and I'd be bothered to even think you had a strategy for generating social proof.
> Why not be part of one.
Because I wouldn't like people who behaved that way. They're fake, annoying, think they have 100 friends when they don't really know what the word means, and they use everyone around them. These are not attractive people to me. Write me an article on meeting people that I actually like and then I'm interested. Meeting people should be about quality, not quantity.
Quality comes later. You do this kind of thing to get ahead in a certain world where you want to achieve something that you wouldn't normally achieve if you did things, as you say, "naturally".
Like I said you can be creepy and a "user" if you do it only for yourself. Or you can focus on helping people and connecting them like Ron Conway for example. It happens in all sorts of human interactions.
You say you would never go to a house party full of people you don't know. Would you go to one that has lots of people you do know -- i.e. your friends?
Let me ask you something ... as an introvert, how do you plan to meet someone e.g. a girl you are attracted to, if your immediate circle of friends wouldn't introduce you to one? How do you meet people if you never go to events full of people you don't know?
Actors in hollywood, etc. have to hustle and make connections. Same goes for musicians, comedians any other performing art. They can't ALL be creepy can they?
What I can tell you is this. A lot of people you meet who make you feel good do it by having empathy and UNDERSTANDING where you are coming from. If you do this systematically with everyone (e.g. think about what a promoter would appreciate before coming to the party) then you aren't being creepy, you are being considerate. And people like that. Yes, this generates social proof, but that's the next level. You generate things bigger than yourself. Just because you are able to "hack" the system doesn't mean you're a bad person, if you are helping everyone.
> You do this kind of thing to get ahead in a certain world where you want to achieve something that you wouldn't normally achieve if you did things, as you say, "naturally".
I don't want to live in that world.
> You say you would never go to a house party full of people you don't know. Would you go to one that has lots of people you do know -- i.e. your friends?
Certainly. New people are fine in moderation, I'd just never go to a party full of strangers. It'd be no fun at all.
> Let me ask you something ... as an introvert, how do you plan to meet someone e.g. a girl you are attracted to, if your immediate circle of friends wouldn't introduce you to one? How do you meet people if you never go to events full of people you don't know?
You don't have to actively seek to attempt to introduce new people to your social circles to run into them anyway. You meet friends of friends without it being planned. You meet new people when following your own interests as a side effect without meeting new people being the goal.
> Actors in hollywood, etc. have to hustle and make connections. Same goes for musicians, comedians any other performing art. They can't ALL be creepy can they?
Yea, they pretty much are, because they're always selling something, always trying to use you in one way or another to forward their cause; it's annoying, insulting, self centered, and causes many introverts to avoid these types of people all together.
> If you do this systematically with everyone (e.g. think about what a promoter would appreciate before coming to the party) then you aren't being creepy, you are being considerate
I agree with that. But if you're being considerate while also thinking how can I use this to my advantage, then it's no longer considerate even though it appears to be. To me it's not your actions that make something considerate, it's your intentions.
If I met someone who consistently helped me out here and there, but I also noticed that every time, it also helped him out in some way then I would no longer consider what he does friendly, I'd consider it manipulative and avoid socializing with that person. Real friends help you even when it's not to their benefit, not just when it's convenient to them.
This is all just how I feel of course, but I doubt I'm alone in this regard. I'm sure many introverts feel the same.
What you are talking about here is rather meeting people for business or business-related purposes and for furthering your own career and especially your personal gain; this isn't just "meeting people" and find personal friends, this is social networking and working it.