[Sorry for entering this far-too-long thread; your message popped up in "comments" and looked interesting; I'm just making a side comment.]
Your criticism that many atheists don't really "get" Christianity is, I think, correct. Certainly, something like Dawkin's "The God Delusion" is a wonderful rallying cry, but hardly an earnest and respectful attempt to convince the other side.
Nonetheless, your own characterization of the atheist side is not entirely fair either. People like Dawkins and the late James Randi are passionate, but passionate scientists - Randi really would have paid his prize for a repeat of many of the miracles described in the gospels, and Dawkins does (did?) try to fairly weigh the evidence, as a scientist should. In fact, an unambiguous miracle in Randi's labs, replicated a few times, would convert a significant fraction of today's atheists: they aren't committed to hating God, they've just drawn a negative conclusion after earnestly considering the evidence.
The level of debate from either side tends to be low, but remember that a prepared and intelligent person winning a debate with an idiot doesn't really prove the truth of the debated position either way. No matter what you believe, there are (some) intelligent, truth-loving and earnestly convinced people on the other side of the divide[1]; it's good to have some idea about how these people can be so wrong.
[I'm a first-generation atheist and consider studying religion(s) to be a bit of a hobby.]
[1] (Actually, don't forget about the Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc; there are more than two parties in this debate.)
I am aware that much of the venom projected at Christians by atheists is a result of the worldview, not the cause. By some accounts, our willful ignorance is endangering civilization. I'd be mad, too.
And I think some of it is just. A lot of secular critiques of the church as being mindless and anti-science . . . are right. And there are religious scholars making the same argument.
My take that atheism is about pride and hatred -- that's a personal judgement based on experience. It seems to me that most of the folks I talk to are atheists because of emotional issues they have, not because of evidence. But I certainly acknowledge that such a generalization is not a rule.
And it certainly, certainly is the case that the universe is a big and mysterious enough place that smart, honest people can disagree.
And honestly, I wish we'd talk more. I think our worldviews would be richer for it.
Comments
[Sorry for entering this far-too-long thread; your message popped up in "comments" and looked interesting; I'm just making a side comment.]
Your criticism that many atheists don't really "get" Christianity is, I think, correct. Certainly, something like Dawkin's "The God Delusion" is a wonderful rallying cry, but hardly an earnest and respectful attempt to convince the other side.
Nonetheless, your own characterization of the atheist side is not entirely fair either. People like Dawkins and the late James Randi are passionate, but passionate scientists - Randi really would have paid his prize for a repeat of many of the miracles described in the gospels, and Dawkins does (did?) try to fairly weigh the evidence, as a scientist should. In fact, an unambiguous miracle in Randi's labs, replicated a few times, would convert a significant fraction of today's atheists: they aren't committed to hating God, they've just drawn a negative conclusion after earnestly considering the evidence.
The level of debate from either side tends to be low, but remember that a prepared and intelligent person winning a debate with an idiot doesn't really prove the truth of the debated position either way. No matter what you believe, there are (some) intelligent, truth-loving and earnestly convinced people on the other side of the divide[1]; it's good to have some idea about how these people can be so wrong.
[I'm a first-generation atheist and consider studying religion(s) to be a bit of a hobby.]
[1] (Actually, don't forget about the Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc; there are more than two parties in this debate.)
Well said.
I am aware that much of the venom projected at Christians by atheists is a result of the worldview, not the cause. By some accounts, our willful ignorance is endangering civilization. I'd be mad, too.
And I think some of it is just. A lot of secular critiques of the church as being mindless and anti-science . . . are right. And there are religious scholars making the same argument.
My take that atheism is about pride and hatred -- that's a personal judgement based on experience. It seems to me that most of the folks I talk to are atheists because of emotional issues they have, not because of evidence. But I certainly acknowledge that such a generalization is not a rule.
And it certainly, certainly is the case that the universe is a big and mysterious enough place that smart, honest people can disagree.
And honestly, I wish we'd talk more. I think our worldviews would be richer for it.