It’s hard to address this without writing an essay, but what Apple has done is largely introduce annoyances, without actually hurting workflows. That’s not nearly enough to get people to switch platforms en masse. The Nvidia situation is a good example of a problem of the magnitude that will actually get people to migrate off of a platform, but the markets that need Nvidia on local hardware is small enough that it hasn’t made much of an impact.
But look at the other markets, why would anyone switch off of the Mac for other use cases like development, A/V editing, Adobe Creative Suite apps, or design? This is debatable, but you could make the case that Apple is best-in-class for all of those, and there’s no other platform you could make that case for (e.g., Linux is clearly worse for A/V editing, and Windows/Linux for design, both missing core apps - note also I’m excluding high-end specialized hardware you’d find at a studio for example).
Migrating off of platforms is a huge hassle, and although they’ve skirted the line, they haven’t actually crossed it by hurting workflows (outside of Nvidia).
(In fact I’d argue that the worst casualties of Apple's bad Mac years were advantages that only Apple had. Apple had a thriving indie software ecosystem that produced one of the greatest platform exclusives in modern history, Sketch. That doesn’t happen anymore because Apple's approach to the Mac App Store prevents it. But that was an advantage only Apple had and therefore they could afford to lose it, because there’s nothing else to switch to that also had it. Apple were willing to sacrifice there own advantages for their security crusade, but they weren’t wiling to go all the way and block apps like Adobe CS and VS Code from running on the platform, which the security model they have been pushing for would require. Because blocking those apps would actually have resulted in lost market share, because those apps run on Windows.)
Sometimes we do! It hasn’t exactly made me popular. But I generally like what Apple’s selling (apart from obvious ethical issues in their supply chain and by some accounts also in their company culture). I’m also pretty invested in the ecosystem though, I have been mostly Apple since I bought my first computer (first gen G4), and grew up with Macs in the house as far back as the IIvx, so I’ve even been through all of the platform transitions except the current one (I’m not working and can’t justify the expense, but I will eventually).
I wouldn't be opposed to trying out a normal arm based laptop down the line when more software gets distributed and run on arm natively, but if you want battery life then you're better of with a Dell 9510. Dell claim 37 battery life but some tests put it at 17 hrs where the M1 gets 12 at the same load. And that is with a i7 or 9 which should use even more power than the m1?
I know, I just chose an esoteric hacker-y thing for maximum hyperbole.
But really, the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of people could not possibly care less about what people complain about in regards to the Mac on here. Is the hardware pretty and performant? That’s what they care about. Nobody gives a damn about running Linux on a MacBook Air.
Yeah, those people would be better off giving money to Linux OEMs so that they would create LinuxBooks of comparable quality, instead they give money to Apple.
Is Windows in bad shape now? My understanding is desktop OS market share hasn’t moved much since 2005?
(Maybe you mean Microsoft missing the boat on mobile? But that would be an odd comparison to make with Apple, who don’t seem to have a problem missing new product categories.)
This proves again that MacOS is not worth using anymore. Apple has no financial interest in producing desktop or laptop os in "general computing" sense. Actual Apple product is the iPhone and iServices. Everything else is in category of companion device. And yes, people don't care about security and freedom they care about safety, social perception and ease of use.
Apple has no financial interest in producing desktop or laptop os in "general computing" sense.
That’s a fascinating take on macOS. Which just had a major release with significant changes in the reported quarter. Unless I’m mistaken it still installs compilers and third party apps just fine, the only “general” thing you can’t do anymore is modify system internals as extensively. Which seems pretty good for security, and not especially meaningful in terms of freedom unless you’re a fanatic.
As you can see I don't care about downvotes. I will say it simply as I can: iOS, iPadOS and in the near future macOS are vertically integrated service and sell channels. The right move that I expected was to make at least iPadOS macOs like not the other way around. The idea to run macOS apps on iPad is more valuable in general computing terms than using touch designed software on desktop os.
Ipads are powerful enough but we don't have a proper access to filesystem and terminal. You can't compile on iPad or iPhone. The macs are around as development platform for increasingly restricted environment. Combine this with trend for SaaS and you will see that using your computer is actually renting overpriced hardware to work in the cloud.
Everything that Apple does is exploiting the limits of their user base.
Don't let me start on system design decision about VPN and Kernel extensions. (I know they will fix this in next update, but whats next?)
This isn’t true because the all of the apps and a huge amount of the content people consume on iOS devices is made on Macs. The Mac is in fact the golden goose, the iPhone is the egg.
Agreed. I can’t emphasise enough how maddening it is to have $5000+ worth of Apple devices in my house (some of which are more powerful than my 5 year old laptop) and none of them can compile software for their own ecosystem.
Comments
Turns out all those people dramatically saying they're finally moving off macOS for good don't really count for anything! Who could have guessed?
It’s hard to address this without writing an essay, but what Apple has done is largely introduce annoyances, without actually hurting workflows. That’s not nearly enough to get people to switch platforms en masse. The Nvidia situation is a good example of a problem of the magnitude that will actually get people to migrate off of a platform, but the markets that need Nvidia on local hardware is small enough that it hasn’t made much of an impact.
But look at the other markets, why would anyone switch off of the Mac for other use cases like development, A/V editing, Adobe Creative Suite apps, or design? This is debatable, but you could make the case that Apple is best-in-class for all of those, and there’s no other platform you could make that case for (e.g., Linux is clearly worse for A/V editing, and Windows/Linux for design, both missing core apps - note also I’m excluding high-end specialized hardware you’d find at a studio for example).
Migrating off of platforms is a huge hassle, and although they’ve skirted the line, they haven’t actually crossed it by hurting workflows (outside of Nvidia).
(In fact I’d argue that the worst casualties of Apple's bad Mac years were advantages that only Apple had. Apple had a thriving indie software ecosystem that produced one of the greatest platform exclusives in modern history, Sketch. That doesn’t happen anymore because Apple's approach to the Mac App Store prevents it. But that was an advantage only Apple had and therefore they could afford to lose it, because there’s nothing else to switch to that also had it. Apple were willing to sacrifice there own advantages for their security crusade, but they weren’t wiling to go all the way and block apps like Adobe CS and VS Code from running on the platform, which the security model they have been pushing for would require. Because blocking those apps would actually have resulted in lost market share, because those apps run on Windows.)
Thank you for posting this, very insightful :)
Might just be that hn comments aren’t representative of the wider population.
Just like any comment section anywhere in the world. Happy users don't bother writing about their experience.
Sometimes we do! It hasn’t exactly made me popular. But I generally like what Apple’s selling (apart from obvious ethical issues in their supply chain and by some accounts also in their company culture). I’m also pretty invested in the ecosystem though, I have been mostly Apple since I bought my first computer (first gen G4), and grew up with Macs in the house as far back as the IIvx, so I’ve even been through all of the platform transitions except the current one (I’m not working and can’t justify the expense, but I will eventually).
Gosh, sheeple, valuing battery life and speed above all else.
When will these people listen to Stallman?! It is CRITICAL TO EVERYONE that we be able to compile Hurd from scratch.
I wouldn't be opposed to trying out a normal arm based laptop down the line when more software gets distributed and run on arm natively, but if you want battery life then you're better of with a Dell 9510. Dell claim 37 battery life but some tests put it at 17 hrs where the M1 gets 12 at the same load. And that is with a i7 or 9 which should use even more power than the m1?
It is CRITICAL TO EVERYONE that we be able to compile Hurd from scratch
Not to be flip, but you can do that on a Macbook Pro as well if you have the skills and know how.
I know, I just chose an esoteric hacker-y thing for maximum hyperbole.
But really, the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of people could not possibly care less about what people complain about in regards to the Mac on here. Is the hardware pretty and performant? That’s what they care about. Nobody gives a damn about running Linux on a MacBook Air.
Yeah, those people would be better off giving money to Linux OEMs so that they would create LinuxBooks of comparable quality, instead they give money to Apple.
I hear you. Completely agree. I always thought the complaints were a bit narrower in scope than most people on HN seemed to believe.
No question - HN complains and is outraged at things people like!
Those complaints aren't for users but for makers. Apple doesn't make devices for makers.
You could re-post this exact comment but make it about Windows in 2005. Short term success can mask long term problems.
Is Windows in bad shape now? My understanding is desktop OS market share hasn’t moved much since 2005?
(Maybe you mean Microsoft missing the boat on mobile? But that would be an odd comparison to make with Apple, who don’t seem to have a problem missing new product categories.)
Interpret it as you wish but according to MS’s most recent earnings report Windows only grew 1%.
This proves again that MacOS is not worth using anymore. Apple has no financial interest in producing desktop or laptop os in "general computing" sense. Actual Apple product is the iPhone and iServices. Everything else is in category of companion device. And yes, people don't care about security and freedom they care about safety, social perception and ease of use.
That’s a fascinating take on macOS. Which just had a major release with significant changes in the reported quarter. Unless I’m mistaken it still installs compilers and third party apps just fine, the only “general” thing you can’t do anymore is modify system internals as extensively. Which seems pretty good for security, and not especially meaningful in terms of freedom unless you’re a fanatic.
I don't know what you think a 'general computing' device is, but as long as I can do my work on it then I'm happy.
As you can see I don't care about downvotes. I will say it simply as I can: iOS, iPadOS and in the near future macOS are vertically integrated service and sell channels. The right move that I expected was to make at least iPadOS macOs like not the other way around. The idea to run macOS apps on iPad is more valuable in general computing terms than using touch designed software on desktop os. Ipads are powerful enough but we don't have a proper access to filesystem and terminal. You can't compile on iPad or iPhone. The macs are around as development platform for increasingly restricted environment. Combine this with trend for SaaS and you will see that using your computer is actually renting overpriced hardware to work in the cloud. Everything that Apple does is exploiting the limits of their user base. Don't let me start on system design decision about VPN and Kernel extensions. (I know they will fix this in next update, but whats next?)
This isn’t true because the all of the apps and a huge amount of the content people consume on iOS devices is made on Macs. The Mac is in fact the golden goose, the iPhone is the egg.
Until you can build exactly the same software for iOS on iOS that you can with macOS, this is not really true.
Agreed. I can’t emphasise enough how maddening it is to have $5000+ worth of Apple devices in my house (some of which are more powerful than my 5 year old laptop) and none of them can compile software for their own ecosystem.