I don't think it's about money as much as lifestyle -- the OP misses this entirely by assuming that both entrepreneurs are single and without children.
Something interesting I observed at Startup Weekend here in Indy last fall:
When it came time to form teams, all the young'uns grouped with one another, and the four of us codgers with responsibilities worked together. The line wasn't drawn according to age: there was one 30+ guy in another group, but he was single; two of the four members of my group were still in our 20's, but we were the primary sources of income for families with children, and I think that led us to fit in better with our 40+ cofounders.
With a few exceptions, I'd find it uncomfortable -- if not unworkable -- cofounding with the bouncy 20-something who has no outside responsibilities. When team building means getting drunk together on a Wednesday night, work hours are noon-8pm, and the company culture is low on planning and high on "nothing to lose", a company is just not going to be a good fit for me.
I'm fine with economic sacrifice, and with working hard. Because I'm looking for a new startup to join, I've tooled down my living expenses such that I could do an extended period somewhere between the two guys in that article. Because I've always been a hard worker, I've made my work schedule part of my family's life: I work a normal 9-3:30 in the office (currently home office, but I'm flexible), then after school, my son brings his homework to my office and we do our work together for a couple of hours. I tend to get in another hour or two in the evenings after he goes to sleep. I never get drunk, let alone on a weeknight when I have to get a first grader up for school in the morning. I'll never end up in an incubator because I'm not changing my son's school, leaving his speech therapy program, leaving our dojo, and generally up-ending his whole world in exchange for a few months of help for my startup.
I often meet people at my stage in life (kids, responsibilities, etc.) who say they don't do start-ups because they perceive "bouncy without responsibilities" to be the expectation of all startups. Their loss. I have to look a little harder, but I find other "codgers" out there in the entrepreneur community. I have to wonder if the people held back by the stereotype really have whatever that spark is that makes us take risks on new things anyway.
I think the TL;DR (and it's very true in my experience) is that having cofounders at different lifestages is an extra challenge.
What could be a perfectly fine Ramen profitable company for 3 20-year olds would be a financial disaster for a couple of 40-year olds.
Success isn't always about growing fast or shutting down. Sometimes's it's just about being good enough for long enough to hang on until good things happen... and mixed-age founders have different abilities to hang on in that situation.
Something where I get to solve interesting problems.
The perfect start-up for me looks a lot like this:
* I get to keep my family in Indianapolis (and actually spend time with
them).
* I need to analyze problems and create solutions -- not just code things
on a checklist that we all know how to do.
* I make enough to get by, and have a tangible stake in the company.
* I get to work with top-notch people whose talents compliment my own.
* I'm making something I'm proud to show off.
* The corporate culture is very hacker-ish, by which I mean that we
subscribe to "best idea first" and are passionate about solving
real-world problems.
You'll note that I haven't said anything about preferring b2c or b2b, or what kind of products I like to build. Throughout my life I've been a security geek, a systems coder, a web developer, and worn a few other hats besides -- I'm something of an algorithm and language design geek, so my skills translate very well from one domain to another. I just want to work with talented people, use my talents to the fullest, and build something I'm proud of.
I think he covered that in his(her) last paragraph where he intentionally left out the kinds of products and therefore the kinds of customers to chase.
I didn't read it as a selfish list of needs with no regard for the team or the customer. In fact, I thought it was refreshing. It seems like he has a good grasp on the kind of team he wants to be a part of and what he can contribute. I would be more inclined to hire someone like that for my team than someone who wasn't that self-aware.
That's where solving real-world problems and building something I'm proud of come in -- without knowing what the startup's customer will be like, how could I possibly be more specific?
There are significantly more "non-traditional" families today than there were 50 years ago and assuming that older entrepreneurs had to be in the same kind of traditional situation (married, kids, house in the suburbs) isn't much better than assuming only young people can start companies.
There are dual income, no kids couples, there's divorced people, there's never been married people.
It would be great if everyone stops assuming that everyone else is the same as you.
> It would be great if everyone stops assuming that everyone else is the same as you.
This seems unnecessarily snarky. OP didn't say "all > 30 year olds have these issues", he was talking about his own experience and how it shapes his startup aspirations.
I agree that I was overly snarky, though only slightly. I disagree that Kids & Mortgage is still very common. Maybe just common, and even then, there's often additional nuance (second marriage, renting not mortgage, etc.)
Comments
I don't think it's about money as much as lifestyle -- the OP misses this entirely by assuming that both entrepreneurs are single and without children.
Something interesting I observed at Startup Weekend here in Indy last fall:
When it came time to form teams, all the young'uns grouped with one another, and the four of us codgers with responsibilities worked together. The line wasn't drawn according to age: there was one 30+ guy in another group, but he was single; two of the four members of my group were still in our 20's, but we were the primary sources of income for families with children, and I think that led us to fit in better with our 40+ cofounders.
With a few exceptions, I'd find it uncomfortable -- if not unworkable -- cofounding with the bouncy 20-something who has no outside responsibilities. When team building means getting drunk together on a Wednesday night, work hours are noon-8pm, and the company culture is low on planning and high on "nothing to lose", a company is just not going to be a good fit for me.
I'm fine with economic sacrifice, and with working hard. Because I'm looking for a new startup to join, I've tooled down my living expenses such that I could do an extended period somewhere between the two guys in that article. Because I've always been a hard worker, I've made my work schedule part of my family's life: I work a normal 9-3:30 in the office (currently home office, but I'm flexible), then after school, my son brings his homework to my office and we do our work together for a couple of hours. I tend to get in another hour or two in the evenings after he goes to sleep. I never get drunk, let alone on a weeknight when I have to get a first grader up for school in the morning. I'll never end up in an incubator because I'm not changing my son's school, leaving his speech therapy program, leaving our dojo, and generally up-ending his whole world in exchange for a few months of help for my startup.
I often meet people at my stage in life (kids, responsibilities, etc.) who say they don't do start-ups because they perceive "bouncy without responsibilities" to be the expectation of all startups. Their loss. I have to look a little harder, but I find other "codgers" out there in the entrepreneur community. I have to wonder if the people held back by the stereotype really have whatever that spark is that makes us take risks on new things anyway.
Oh, and I almost forgot.... GET OFF MY LAWN!
I think the TL;DR (and it's very true in my experience) is that having cofounders at different lifestages is an extra challenge.
What could be a perfectly fine Ramen profitable company for 3 20-year olds would be a financial disaster for a couple of 40-year olds.
Success isn't always about growing fast or shutting down. Sometimes's it's just about being good enough for long enough to hang on until good things happen... and mixed-age founders have different abilities to hang on in that situation.
Fellow old fogey here. What kind of startup are you looking to join?
Something where I get to solve interesting problems.
The perfect start-up for me looks a lot like this:
You'll note that I haven't said anything about preferring b2c or b2b, or what kind of products I like to build. Throughout my life I've been a security geek, a systems coder, a web developer, and worn a few other hats besides -- I'm something of an algorithm and language design geek, so my skills translate very well from one domain to another. I just want to work with talented people, use my talents to the fullest, and build something I'm proud of.What a wonderful resume. Sincere and to the point.
Sounds nice, but that list is all about you. Startup people need to be laser focused on the customer.
I think he covered that in his(her) last paragraph where he intentionally left out the kinds of products and therefore the kinds of customers to chase.
I didn't read it as a selfish list of needs with no regard for the team or the customer. In fact, I thought it was refreshing. It seems like he has a good grasp on the kind of team he wants to be a part of and what he can contribute. I would be more inclined to hire someone like that for my team than someone who wasn't that self-aware.
There's nothing start-up specific about that list and getting hired and starting a company are two different things.
Thanks, kerryfalk, you got my point exactly. :)
That's where solving real-world problems and building something I'm proud of come in -- without knowing what the startup's customer will be like, how could I possibly be more specific?
I got the impression this thread was about being an entrepreneur, not an employee.
There are significantly more "non-traditional" families today than there were 50 years ago and assuming that older entrepreneurs had to be in the same kind of traditional situation (married, kids, house in the suburbs) isn't much better than assuming only young people can start companies.
There are dual income, no kids couples, there's divorced people, there's never been married people.
It would be great if everyone stops assuming that everyone else is the same as you.
> It would be great if everyone stops assuming that everyone else is the same as you.
This seems unnecessarily snarky. OP didn't say "all > 30 year olds have these issues", he was talking about his own experience and how it shapes his startup aspirations.
Kids & Mortgage is still very common.
I agree that I was overly snarky, though only slightly. I disagree that Kids & Mortgage is still very common. Maybe just common, and even then, there's often additional nuance (second marriage, renting not mortgage, etc.)
When did I say "everyone is like this"?
My point was merely that co-founders with very different lifestyles may not be terribly compatible, and that age is not a good predictor of that.