Society has functioned for thousands of years without banning exposed faces/mouths. Perhaps we can focus on balancing risk-reward vs some utilitarian-authoritarian ideal that completely neglects people's individual freedoms in exchange for an unrealistic and unreasonable pursuit of a statistically aesthetic(zero deaths) outcome? These kind of well intentioned platitudes like "if we can prevent one death, one single death then any and all measures are worth it without consideration of cost+freedom" wouldnt make sense if you were talking about, for example, banning all driving to prevent millions of deaths every year.
Society has functioned for thousands of years while accepting slavery. Society has functioned for thousands of years while banning freedom of religion. Society has functioned for thousands of years without antibiotics etc. Just because we've done things for thousands of years, it doesn't mean we can't improve.
Your driving argument actually reinforces the parent's point. In most places in the world, you can't drive beyond a speed limit and you can't drive while drunk. These are restrictions on people's individual freedoms.
"Society has functioned for thousands of years without banning exposed faces/mouths"
Yes, at the cost of tens if not hundreds of millions of deaths during the 1918 flu pandemic, for instance.
Do we really want to repeat that mistake so that some people can have the "freedom" of not wearing masks (and not social distancing either, because apparently many people think that infringes on their freedom too).
"Perhaps we can focus on balancing risk-reward vs some utilitarian-authoritarian ideal ... if we can prevent one death, one single death then any and all measures are worth it"
Authoritarian ideal? Any and all measures? Really?
Can we please get some perspective here?
We're not talking about some extreme measures like those truly authoritarian societies are infamous for, like making people slaves and working them to death, exterminating entire populations and political opponents, depriving minorities of all rights and property and then throwing them in to ghettoes, or completely (and I mean completely) making everyone subservient to their leaders.
Let's not trivialize the horrors of true authoritarianism by conflating them with people covering their faces to save thousands of lives.
It might not be worth it. We don’t know what effects to mental health mask wearing has, it’s certainly isn’t something natural. And rule of thumb is, if something is not natural, it has some adverse effects.
Telling people theyre killing others is manipulative. Are you ok with banning all cars because you might accidentally run someone over? Every single time you go to the grocery store, school, work, etc you might hit someone. You might hit a tree and only hurt yourself, or you could cause a pileup that takes several others and disrupts the whole city.
That's a strawman, because no one is seriously proposing getting rid of all cars, and there's just no possibility of it happening any time in the foreseeable future.
Wearing masks is a real, tangible possibility, and has already been accomplished on a very wide scale, though not everyone has been convinced yet. We are close, though, and the more people get on board, the more lives will be saved.
Also, getting rid of cars has many actual practical negative consequences, particularly in places with poor public transportation (much of the US). People without cars in such places can't get to work or shop, not to mention all the deliveries that need to be made by truck.
By contrast, there are absolutely no practical negative consequences of wearing a mask. It's a purely cosmetic choice.
Why some people value how they look more than another human's life is simply beyond me.
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The problem is that if you're infected you can spread the disease before you start feeling sick.
And, again, how does it hurt you to wear a mask? If it can lower the chance of some people dying isn't it worth it?
Society has functioned for thousands of years without banning exposed faces/mouths. Perhaps we can focus on balancing risk-reward vs some utilitarian-authoritarian ideal that completely neglects people's individual freedoms in exchange for an unrealistic and unreasonable pursuit of a statistically aesthetic(zero deaths) outcome? These kind of well intentioned platitudes like "if we can prevent one death, one single death then any and all measures are worth it without consideration of cost+freedom" wouldnt make sense if you were talking about, for example, banning all driving to prevent millions of deaths every year.
Society has functioned for thousands of years while accepting slavery. Society has functioned for thousands of years while banning freedom of religion. Society has functioned for thousands of years without antibiotics etc. Just because we've done things for thousands of years, it doesn't mean we can't improve.
Your driving argument actually reinforces the parent's point. In most places in the world, you can't drive beyond a speed limit and you can't drive while drunk. These are restrictions on people's individual freedoms.
"Society has functioned for thousands of years without banning exposed faces/mouths"
Yes, at the cost of tens if not hundreds of millions of deaths during the 1918 flu pandemic, for instance.
Do we really want to repeat that mistake so that some people can have the "freedom" of not wearing masks (and not social distancing either, because apparently many people think that infringes on their freedom too).
"Perhaps we can focus on balancing risk-reward vs some utilitarian-authoritarian ideal ... if we can prevent one death, one single death then any and all measures are worth it"
Authoritarian ideal? Any and all measures? Really?
Can we please get some perspective here?
We're not talking about some extreme measures like those truly authoritarian societies are infamous for, like making people slaves and working them to death, exterminating entire populations and political opponents, depriving minorities of all rights and property and then throwing them in to ghettoes, or completely (and I mean completely) making everyone subservient to their leaders.
Let's not trivialize the horrors of true authoritarianism by conflating them with people covering their faces to save thousands of lives.
I bet we could save even more lives by banning tobacco and alcohol.
I remember circa 1985 I said the solution to smoking was to reduce the amount of nicotine in cigarettes by 5% a year.
Society has functioned for thousands of years not brushing their teeth doesn't mean we have to keep doing that.
It might not be worth it. We don’t know what effects to mental health mask wearing has, it’s certainly isn’t something natural. And rule of thumb is, if something is not natural, it has some adverse effects.
We seem to be getting by with shoes, coats, gloves, hats, sunglasses, and sunscreen just fine
Wearing a mask is disgusting. Make a suggestion if you like but god help the politician who pushes for permanent compulsion.
So, wait, your offended sense of fashion is worth killing people over?
Telling people theyre killing others is manipulative. Are you ok with banning all cars because you might accidentally run someone over? Every single time you go to the grocery store, school, work, etc you might hit someone. You might hit a tree and only hurt yourself, or you could cause a pileup that takes several others and disrupts the whole city.
That's a strawman, because no one is seriously proposing getting rid of all cars, and there's just no possibility of it happening any time in the foreseeable future.
Wearing masks is a real, tangible possibility, and has already been accomplished on a very wide scale, though not everyone has been convinced yet. We are close, though, and the more people get on board, the more lives will be saved.
Also, getting rid of cars has many actual practical negative consequences, particularly in places with poor public transportation (much of the US). People without cars in such places can't get to work or shop, not to mention all the deliveries that need to be made by truck.
By contrast, there are absolutely no practical negative consequences of wearing a mask. It's a purely cosmetic choice.
Why some people value how they look more than another human's life is simply beyond me.
I'd be perfectly OK with banning all private cars. At least in cities. They make no sense there.