My understanding is that 'western values' is also a dogwhistle for a particular sort of nationalist authoritarianism that does not represent, for instance, the Allies in WWII.
Rather the other side of that conflict, really. This complicates things. I have to ask, especially seeing the 'cancel culture' and the suggestion that things have been getting worse for years, which definition of 'western values' you mean.
From where I'm standing, there's never been as much ability to advocate for your POV, including from groups that have historically been brutally oppressed. It's messy, but that's democracy for you. I think it's an instructive contrast with what's going on in China.
Western values can be a big pain in the butt, and yet I wouldn't have it any other way. We're living through a spectacular vindication of exactly Western values, compared to some other ideologies/ethos that have gained traction in the past.
I don't know that extremists on both far left and far right yelling over each other to drive public policy is a sign of a healthy democracy.
Neither of those groups naturally represent a majority of people, they're just having an outsized megative impact on society by being loud.
While Soviet Union had centralized unidirectional brainwashing, US now has bipolar, decentralized brainwashing. Not quite the same but also not quite that different.
If anything it's all those "western values" clashing together in a rather unfortunate way, exposing our society's inability to deal with free speech amplified by technology, corrupt politicians, greedy billionaires, and consolidated media empires.
This sucks, and it's not just messy, the whole thing is failing at the seams with no hope in sight.
"dogwhistle for a particular sort of nationalist authoritarianism"
No such dogwhistle signal was intended here, at all. "Western values" was meant as shorthand for democracy and democratic ideals. Related tangent: it bothers me that the far right attempts to conflate patriotism with nationalism.
Nobody's willing to defend them? I think you mean you can't be bothered. Some years ago I raised an abuse of power by the british government with the EU and wheels started to move. I'm not giving details and it was nothing too major but it's surprising what one letter to the right official did (ok, I imagine there were others also complaining so not just me).
With a number of people here for whom failure is not an option, it's a bloody destination, undermining anyone who tries, you will get the society you deserve.
Nobody's willing to defend them? I think you mean you can't be bothered.
I mean, I do also write to MPs and various offices. What I mean to say is it's very difficult to build a grassroots movement that opposes the establishment, Brexit being the big exception to the rule.
Anyone campaigning for say, digital rights against government surveillance could get cancelled by the media very quickly.
Trouble is there are too many who won't try. And brexit was anything but grass roots, it was led by the top. There was also a lot of passion there to be led, for better or worse.
Anyone campaigning for say, digital rights against government surveillance could get cancelled by the media very quickly.
Oh come on, get cancelled by the media? They might be lazy at times but the media doesn't 'cancel' stuff.
Eh?? Brexit was fiercely decried by the ruling class. The only reason the vote happened was because it threatened to break up the conservative party. Nobody expected the result we got.
The media doesn't cancel people directly but they do amplify minor Twitter outrage to a global audience and as such, part of the problem. The canonical example is entire articles being written on 1-2 tweets supporting a particular opinion, but ignores thousands of tweets with a different opinions.
Comments
These values matter, but nobody is willing to defend them. In fact, things have been getting worse for years now (e.g. cancel culture)
My understanding is that 'western values' is also a dogwhistle for a particular sort of nationalist authoritarianism that does not represent, for instance, the Allies in WWII.
Rather the other side of that conflict, really. This complicates things. I have to ask, especially seeing the 'cancel culture' and the suggestion that things have been getting worse for years, which definition of 'western values' you mean.
From where I'm standing, there's never been as much ability to advocate for your POV, including from groups that have historically been brutally oppressed. It's messy, but that's democracy for you. I think it's an instructive contrast with what's going on in China.
Western values can be a big pain in the butt, and yet I wouldn't have it any other way. We're living through a spectacular vindication of exactly Western values, compared to some other ideologies/ethos that have gained traction in the past.
I don't know that extremists on both far left and far right yelling over each other to drive public policy is a sign of a healthy democracy.
Neither of those groups naturally represent a majority of people, they're just having an outsized megative impact on society by being loud.
While Soviet Union had centralized unidirectional brainwashing, US now has bipolar, decentralized brainwashing. Not quite the same but also not quite that different.
If anything it's all those "western values" clashing together in a rather unfortunate way, exposing our society's inability to deal with free speech amplified by technology, corrupt politicians, greedy billionaires, and consolidated media empires.
This sucks, and it's not just messy, the whole thing is failing at the seams with no hope in sight.
"dogwhistle for a particular sort of nationalist authoritarianism"
No such dogwhistle signal was intended here, at all. "Western values" was meant as shorthand for democracy and democratic ideals. Related tangent: it bothers me that the far right attempts to conflate patriotism with nationalism.
Nobody's willing to defend them? I think you mean you can't be bothered. Some years ago I raised an abuse of power by the british government with the EU and wheels started to move. I'm not giving details and it was nothing too major but it's surprising what one letter to the right official did (ok, I imagine there were others also complaining so not just me).
With a number of people here for whom failure is not an option, it's a bloody destination, undermining anyone who tries, you will get the society you deserve.
I mean, I do also write to MPs and various offices. What I mean to say is it's very difficult to build a grassroots movement that opposes the establishment, Brexit being the big exception to the rule.
Anyone campaigning for say, digital rights against government surveillance could get cancelled by the media very quickly.
Trouble is there are too many who won't try. And brexit was anything but grass roots, it was led by the top. There was also a lot of passion there to be led, for better or worse.
Oh come on, get cancelled by the media? They might be lazy at times but the media doesn't 'cancel' stuff.
Eh?? Brexit was fiercely decried by the ruling class. The only reason the vote happened was because it threatened to break up the conservative party. Nobody expected the result we got.
The media doesn't cancel people directly but they do amplify minor Twitter outrage to a global audience and as such, part of the problem. The canonical example is entire articles being written on 1-2 tweets supporting a particular opinion, but ignores thousands of tweets with a different opinions.
They memory hole lots of stuff though.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?gbv=1&tbm=nws&q=%22governmen...
Seems like it's there.
Not sure I understand what you're getting at??
You are asking people to be bothered, when their own Western governments were asking them not to for the last 20 years.
These people got very well habituated to the injustice their own countries perpetuate.