I'm a programmer and have always preferred a late-night hacking session or a deep intellectual late-night conversation with a likely-minded soul over going to pubs/house parties and doing keg stands, being obnoxiously loud and other misc. "bro-ey" antics.
But I think your thinking is too binary (but I can relate to that as well as I'm a geek at heart) - who says that extroverts can't be introspective or sensitive when you are being sensitive to them or that under the right circumstances, when somebody puts the move on you, your favorite music is playing at the bar or just feel-good atmosphere, an introvert flips into the life of the party. Not exclusive to the programming world, I feel that most people put unfamiliar cliques into bins and give themselves the self-label of "martyrdom" and "misunderstood geniuses" when we are all confused, insecure yuppies secretly nursing our individual quarter-life/mid-life crisis.
Like when you are debugging an application, would you expect if you don't change code or step-through to examine deeply your stack, the program would just magically work? But too often in the real world, programmers (including me) bang our heads in frustration of "us vs. them" and pine for better results without actually debugging our control flow.
But I can empathize with that too - too often as programmers, we are taught to grind through the code, not to give in no matter what; there's a masochist pleasure to drill down and resolve the bug no matter - "do not go gentle into that good night!" But I'm also a options trader and one of the hardest lesson that that field humbles you is "do not try to fight the market, do not take your emotions out on the market" - because the market is like an ocean, swimming against the current is difficult and strained whereas giving yourself to the vast tides is relaxing and liberating.
So like the financial markets, so is the "meat" market; and the trend there is that you have to go out, put yourself out there, flirt with strangers - because how else would someone who's interested in you be able to consummate that relationship if you are sitting at home. Do that and then tell me if you still have the same opinion about obnoxious/rowdy extroverts and non-programmers.
And as a programmer, I'm going to give you unsolicited advice about how to break into the extroverts scene. It's all about desensitization to let yourself go. First, you should sign up for a volunteering opportunity in your city; it's a good structured environment for people to meet up and people there by the nature are friendly. Once you get warmed up in volunteering, you should go daytime to a cafe by yourself and get a cup of coffee and try to flash smiles at strangers. People go to coffee shops by themselves all the time and it's expected you smile at people in public. Then you should go to a bar and try to have a beer by yourself. Do not worry about appearing awkward because actually people there probably have lots of respect for you for having the balls to come in by yourself and not rely on friends' crutches; and don't get surprised that extroverts will approach to talk, get your phone#, or more. Next, go to a night-club when there's a dance night that's playing your favorite genre music; again just dance the night away and don't feel self-unconscious, just concentrate on the music.
By then, you would have been approached by tons of interested strangers and/or developed confidence to approach potential cute romantic liaisons yourself that you'll know what to do. I can't believe typed out this rant but please disregard if this isn't particularly relevant to your situation but this is what happens I'm drunk at 4:48am on Sunday.
I moved to another country, I don't know anyone there, I do go out on my own and I do sit in cafés on my own from time to time - heck absolutely EVERYWHERE I go I am alone since 2 years.
I have not been approached by ANYONE not even a single time. I can hardly catch anyone's eyes to so much as get a chance to smile at them.
Your suggestions sound smart and useful but ultimately they probably only work for very attractive people and/or people who are not shy and already extrovert anyway - at least in my experience.
Seriously, I've countryhopped myself and once you have a decent grip of the language, the best way to get low-friction contact with the locals is to strike random conversations with old people. With few exceptions, they love it when anyone at all talks to them, have interesting stories to tell, and are much easier to approach than your random person-your-age on the street. Try it. Give yourself a quota of one conversation a day. Talk to that granny that lives two floors above you to start with. Keep it up.
It's a two-way street. When you're willing to approach other people, you're more likely to present noticeable-but-subconscious cues that you're an approachable person. If you're sulking in the corner, morose that no one will talk to you, then you probably don't look like someone others want to approach.
I try to do something similar to what noname does, but I also try to seize opportunities to talk to people. In a crowded coffee shop, it's inevitable that you'll overhear conversations, and people realize this. If the conversation isn't too personal, and you have an insight or something meaningful to add, try interjecting. I'm always apologetic when I do it, flashing smiles and trying to be as polite as possible. If I feel they were actually bothered by the interjection, I say my piece, apologize and leave it at that. But people often are receptive to the interjection, and I've met some good people that way - people that I now consider friends.
Hmm. In the spirit of even more unsolicited advice, I would say that it's also your attitude. Sorry to get all philosophical but there are certain things that you can control (say your emotions/thoughts/what you can do next) vs. things you can't control (other people's emotions/background).
Being social is about being independent of other people's positive and negative feedback about you. Suppose a stranger looks down or frowns when you try to tell them a joke or to get them to open up on a bus or something, your thinking could go either, "well, this sucks; people think I'm nerdy, unattractive, etc." or you could think, "well, it's alright; maybe she's just having a bad day or just being shy and really appreciated me; well, there's always next time!"
Kind of like debugging, "first you don't succeed, dust yourself up and try again!" (well, I guess it's more like re-compile and try again, doesn't have the same ring to it though).
Comments
I'm a programmer and have always preferred a late-night hacking session or a deep intellectual late-night conversation with a likely-minded soul over going to pubs/house parties and doing keg stands, being obnoxiously loud and other misc. "bro-ey" antics.
But I think your thinking is too binary (but I can relate to that as well as I'm a geek at heart) - who says that extroverts can't be introspective or sensitive when you are being sensitive to them or that under the right circumstances, when somebody puts the move on you, your favorite music is playing at the bar or just feel-good atmosphere, an introvert flips into the life of the party. Not exclusive to the programming world, I feel that most people put unfamiliar cliques into bins and give themselves the self-label of "martyrdom" and "misunderstood geniuses" when we are all confused, insecure yuppies secretly nursing our individual quarter-life/mid-life crisis.
Like when you are debugging an application, would you expect if you don't change code or step-through to examine deeply your stack, the program would just magically work? But too often in the real world, programmers (including me) bang our heads in frustration of "us vs. them" and pine for better results without actually debugging our control flow.
But I can empathize with that too - too often as programmers, we are taught to grind through the code, not to give in no matter what; there's a masochist pleasure to drill down and resolve the bug no matter - "do not go gentle into that good night!" But I'm also a options trader and one of the hardest lesson that that field humbles you is "do not try to fight the market, do not take your emotions out on the market" - because the market is like an ocean, swimming against the current is difficult and strained whereas giving yourself to the vast tides is relaxing and liberating.
So like the financial markets, so is the "meat" market; and the trend there is that you have to go out, put yourself out there, flirt with strangers - because how else would someone who's interested in you be able to consummate that relationship if you are sitting at home. Do that and then tell me if you still have the same opinion about obnoxious/rowdy extroverts and non-programmers.
And as a programmer, I'm going to give you unsolicited advice about how to break into the extroverts scene. It's all about desensitization to let yourself go. First, you should sign up for a volunteering opportunity in your city; it's a good structured environment for people to meet up and people there by the nature are friendly. Once you get warmed up in volunteering, you should go daytime to a cafe by yourself and get a cup of coffee and try to flash smiles at strangers. People go to coffee shops by themselves all the time and it's expected you smile at people in public. Then you should go to a bar and try to have a beer by yourself. Do not worry about appearing awkward because actually people there probably have lots of respect for you for having the balls to come in by yourself and not rely on friends' crutches; and don't get surprised that extroverts will approach to talk, get your phone#, or more. Next, go to a night-club when there's a dance night that's playing your favorite genre music; again just dance the night away and don't feel self-unconscious, just concentrate on the music.
By then, you would have been approached by tons of interested strangers and/or developed confidence to approach potential cute romantic liaisons yourself that you'll know what to do. I can't believe typed out this rant but please disregard if this isn't particularly relevant to your situation but this is what happens I'm drunk at 4:48am on Sunday.
Interesting ideas and good suggestions but...
I moved to another country, I don't know anyone there, I do go out on my own and I do sit in cafés on my own from time to time - heck absolutely EVERYWHERE I go I am alone since 2 years.
I have not been approached by ANYONE not even a single time. I can hardly catch anyone's eyes to so much as get a chance to smile at them.
Your suggestions sound smart and useful but ultimately they probably only work for very attractive people and/or people who are not shy and already extrovert anyway - at least in my experience.
Talk to old people.
Seriously, I've countryhopped myself and once you have a decent grip of the language, the best way to get low-friction contact with the locals is to strike random conversations with old people. With few exceptions, they love it when anyone at all talks to them, have interesting stories to tell, and are much easier to approach than your random person-your-age on the street. Try it. Give yourself a quota of one conversation a day. Talk to that granny that lives two floors above you to start with. Keep it up.
Same with my experience in 3 different countries. As an introvert and loner by choice, that's hardly a problem; rather the opposite I'd day.
Holy shit dude, I know I'm an extrovert but I have at least a conversation a day with a stranger. What country are you in?
Germany - more specifically Hessen; not exactly welcoming and open like e.g. Cologne.
Perhaps you should approach other people.
You prove my point and contradict OP's suggestions, exactly.
It's a two-way street. When you're willing to approach other people, you're more likely to present noticeable-but-subconscious cues that you're an approachable person. If you're sulking in the corner, morose that no one will talk to you, then you probably don't look like someone others want to approach.
I try to do something similar to what noname does, but I also try to seize opportunities to talk to people. In a crowded coffee shop, it's inevitable that you'll overhear conversations, and people realize this. If the conversation isn't too personal, and you have an insight or something meaningful to add, try interjecting. I'm always apologetic when I do it, flashing smiles and trying to be as polite as possible. If I feel they were actually bothered by the interjection, I say my piece, apologize and leave it at that. But people often are receptive to the interjection, and I've met some good people that way - people that I now consider friends.
Hmm. In the spirit of even more unsolicited advice, I would say that it's also your attitude. Sorry to get all philosophical but there are certain things that you can control (say your emotions/thoughts/what you can do next) vs. things you can't control (other people's emotions/background).
Being social is about being independent of other people's positive and negative feedback about you. Suppose a stranger looks down or frowns when you try to tell them a joke or to get them to open up on a bus or something, your thinking could go either, "well, this sucks; people think I'm nerdy, unattractive, etc." or you could think, "well, it's alright; maybe she's just having a bad day or just being shy and really appreciated me; well, there's always next time!"
Kind of like debugging, "first you don't succeed, dust yourself up and try again!" (well, I guess it's more like re-compile and try again, doesn't have the same ring to it though).