>...allow a new population of non-expert users to use the product more cheaply and simply.
More cheaply? I would say you can get more powerful laptops/netbooks and desktops with more storage for less than $500.
There is so much hot air expended on essential meaningless PR terms such as this, especially when it comes to Apple.
All of this is just posturing for the media and general public and does not hold up to technical scrutiny more than the previous claim about the iPhone running the 'full OS X'.
I am more worried about the 30% tax on services that seems to tag along with the so called Post-PC devices.
> I would say you can get more powerful laptops/netbooks and desktops with more storage for less than $500.
Come on, don't compare crappy netbooks running windows 7 on a tiny screen to the iPad. The iPad is a completely different kind of device. While its specs might be (hypothetically speaking (for the sake of the argument)) crappier than some netbook out there, that's not the point.
You ignored the whole sentence and picked on "cheaply". You forgot "non-expert users" and "simply".
Also, coming back to the price. Think of the value the iPad is offering; not just the specs. Easy to hold, looks gorgeous, plenty of apps, fun to use, fluid experience .. etc.
If one part of a sentence is factually incorrect or an outright lie[1], it is entirely appropriate to point out that it is so, ignoring the other portions of it.
> crappy netbooks running windows 7 on a tiny screen
The iPad has a 9.7in screen, with a 1024 x 768 resolution. By comparison, many netbooks have 10.1in screens with 1024 x 600 resolutions. I wouldn't call that enough of a difference to say that netbook screens are tiny while iPad screens aren't.
> its specs might be (hypothetically speaking (for the sake of the argument)) crappier than some netbook out there
Your bias is showing, as is your ignorance of the current specs of iPads and netbooks. The first generation of iPads had specs which were inferior to many netbooks at the time, especially when considering RAM; the current generation (which isn't shipping yet) has comparably fast processors, but much less storage and probably less RAM.
But yes, Apple is trying to position themselves as not a part of the herd, removing the need to compete on specs. They are definitely succeeding[2], which allows them both to focus on the interface and appearance and to make their products into appliances, where it doesn't necessarily make sense to compare them to anything else. How do you compare UI, after all? If Apple is able to avoid objective measurements, that's a huge success for them, since they'll be able to sell hardware that's slower or older without anyone noticing.
[1] In this case, it is factually incorrect, and perhaps an outright lie, to claim that iPads are cheaper than netbooks. $379.99 for a netbook is less than $499 for an iPad.
[2] As your comment makes abundantly clear, Apple does not lack fans, nor will these fans stand quietly by while objectively true statements are made that disparage Apple.
I'm not a huge apple fan as you try to imply. I don't own an iPad, I don't even use Mac OS X (I use Ubuntu). But I find Apple's products appealing and I like their approach.
Your mentality is exactly why Google and Microsoft (and others) don't get Apple at all. You think in "data". If something can't be put in a spreadsheet, it's not real for you.
Your comparisons between netbooks and iPads are ridiculous. You're comparing the price, specs, and screen size. You just don't get it.
11" is tiny for windows 7, because it wasn't designed for netbooks. The taskbar takes a huge part of the screen, as do the title bars and menu bars and tool bars and tab bars.
The iPad screen size might be the same or smaller or whatever, but because applications are designed specifically for it, they use the screen space much more efficiently.
By the way, Apple has its own netbook. It's called Air and it has a 11" variant. It's much more expensive than typical netbooks though, and I guess you could argue that it's not really a netbook.
> Apple does not lack fans, nor will these fans stand quietly by while objectively true statements are made that disparage Apple.
Your sense of "objectivity" is ridiculous.
It's like your counting the number of character in a logical argument as a measure of its validity. "I wrote more characters than you, therefore I win the argument". This is just an analogy of course, and this is not what you're saying. But, you're using the wrong measure for determining the value of the iPad.
> If one part of a sentence is factually incorrect or an outright lie[1], it is entirely appropriate to point out that it is so, ignoring the other portions of it.
It's only a lie when you take it out of context. It's talking about non-expert users. Only geeks like us would shop around for the best laptop deals. Most people don't even know how to evaluate the specs. "What does dual core mean and why should I care? What type of memory is best?".
non-expert users cannot get a product that's cheaper than the iPad and provides the same or similar experience. There just isn't such a product.
Not to mention the iPad uses SSD instead of magnetic discs. A typical non-expert user wouldn't even know what SSD means and if he had to pick a laptop he would most likely choose one with a magnetic disk because it tends to be cheaper (it's not like he would read all the specs anyway).
Your post has nothing to do with the argument at hand. The article effectively claimed that the post-PC devices are "cheaper". I refuted that in my original post above.
Your argument that they are of more value because of the software is subjective, not objective and the parent post acknowledged that. And no one is talking about 11" netbooks here which you introduced as a strawman to beat down PCs. There are a lot of 15" and 14" LAPTOPS (not netbooks, geez, are you stuck in 2008?) that can be obtained below $500(the Air is much more expensive).
At this point, the subjective comparison is between a $500 basic 10" iPad vs. a 14" or 15" laptop for $500 or cheaper and your claim is the iPad beats the laptop in value for the general public which is a highly debatable claim given the iPads lack of physical keyboard and small screen.
Remember, the iPad uses a 10" LCD(though IPS) vs. a 15.6" (a huge % increase in area).
The problem is that you can't really compare on specs. The problem I had with the article was that it compared it to the evolution from Mainframes to Minicomputers to PCs. Each step there, the cost was an order or more of magnitude cheaper(correct me if I am wrong).
When you can get "PCs" (a cheap crappy netbook is still a PC) for $280, the comparison falls apart completely.
Eg. You can get more than decent desktops for less than $500.
See:
Vostro 230s
Also Includes Intel Core 2 Duo 2.93GHz Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit 2GB 500GB 21.5" Monitor DVD ROM $499.00
My problem was the premise of the article, not about the supposed "value" of the iPad.
This is an article about past paradigm shifts and their properties in general, not about whether or not tablets are actually another such paradigm shift, isn’t it?
Comments
>...allow a new population of non-expert users to use the product more cheaply and simply.
More cheaply? I would say you can get more powerful laptops/netbooks and desktops with more storage for less than $500.
There is so much hot air expended on essential meaningless PR terms such as this, especially when it comes to Apple.
All of this is just posturing for the media and general public and does not hold up to technical scrutiny more than the previous claim about the iPhone running the 'full OS X'.
I am more worried about the 30% tax on services that seems to tag along with the so called Post-PC devices.
> I would say you can get more powerful laptops/netbooks and desktops with more storage for less than $500.
Come on, don't compare crappy netbooks running windows 7 on a tiny screen to the iPad. The iPad is a completely different kind of device. While its specs might be (hypothetically speaking (for the sake of the argument)) crappier than some netbook out there, that's not the point.
You ignored the whole sentence and picked on "cheaply". You forgot "non-expert users" and "simply".
Also, coming back to the price. Think of the value the iPad is offering; not just the specs. Easy to hold, looks gorgeous, plenty of apps, fun to use, fluid experience .. etc.
If one part of a sentence is factually incorrect or an outright lie[1], it is entirely appropriate to point out that it is so, ignoring the other portions of it.
> crappy netbooks running windows 7 on a tiny screen
The iPad has a 9.7in screen, with a 1024 x 768 resolution. By comparison, many netbooks have 10.1in screens with 1024 x 600 resolutions. I wouldn't call that enough of a difference to say that netbook screens are tiny while iPad screens aren't.
> its specs might be (hypothetically speaking (for the sake of the argument)) crappier than some netbook out there
Your bias is showing, as is your ignorance of the current specs of iPads and netbooks. The first generation of iPads had specs which were inferior to many netbooks at the time, especially when considering RAM; the current generation (which isn't shipping yet) has comparably fast processors, but much less storage and probably less RAM.
But yes, Apple is trying to position themselves as not a part of the herd, removing the need to compete on specs. They are definitely succeeding[2], which allows them both to focus on the interface and appearance and to make their products into appliances, where it doesn't necessarily make sense to compare them to anything else. How do you compare UI, after all? If Apple is able to avoid objective measurements, that's a huge success for them, since they'll be able to sell hardware that's slower or older without anyone noticing.
[1] In this case, it is factually incorrect, and perhaps an outright lie, to claim that iPads are cheaper than netbooks. $379.99 for a netbook is less than $499 for an iPad.
[2] As your comment makes abundantly clear, Apple does not lack fans, nor will these fans stand quietly by while objectively true statements are made that disparage Apple.
I'm not a huge apple fan as you try to imply. I don't own an iPad, I don't even use Mac OS X (I use Ubuntu). But I find Apple's products appealing and I like their approach.
Your mentality is exactly why Google and Microsoft (and others) don't get Apple at all. You think in "data". If something can't be put in a spreadsheet, it's not real for you.
Your comparisons between netbooks and iPads are ridiculous. You're comparing the price, specs, and screen size. You just don't get it.
11" is tiny for windows 7, because it wasn't designed for netbooks. The taskbar takes a huge part of the screen, as do the title bars and menu bars and tool bars and tab bars.
The iPad screen size might be the same or smaller or whatever, but because applications are designed specifically for it, they use the screen space much more efficiently.
By the way, Apple has its own netbook. It's called Air and it has a 11" variant. It's much more expensive than typical netbooks though, and I guess you could argue that it's not really a netbook.
> Apple does not lack fans, nor will these fans stand quietly by while objectively true statements are made that disparage Apple.
Your sense of "objectivity" is ridiculous.
It's like your counting the number of character in a logical argument as a measure of its validity. "I wrote more characters than you, therefore I win the argument". This is just an analogy of course, and this is not what you're saying. But, you're using the wrong measure for determining the value of the iPad.
> If one part of a sentence is factually incorrect or an outright lie[1], it is entirely appropriate to point out that it is so, ignoring the other portions of it.
It's only a lie when you take it out of context. It's talking about non-expert users. Only geeks like us would shop around for the best laptop deals. Most people don't even know how to evaluate the specs. "What does dual core mean and why should I care? What type of memory is best?".
non-expert users cannot get a product that's cheaper than the iPad and provides the same or similar experience. There just isn't such a product.
Not to mention the iPad uses SSD instead of magnetic discs. A typical non-expert user wouldn't even know what SSD means and if he had to pick a laptop he would most likely choose one with a magnetic disk because it tends to be cheaper (it's not like he would read all the specs anyway).
Your post has nothing to do with the argument at hand. The article effectively claimed that the post-PC devices are "cheaper". I refuted that in my original post above.
Your argument that they are of more value because of the software is subjective, not objective and the parent post acknowledged that. And no one is talking about 11" netbooks here which you introduced as a strawman to beat down PCs. There are a lot of 15" and 14" LAPTOPS (not netbooks, geez, are you stuck in 2008?) that can be obtained below $500(the Air is much more expensive).
At this point, the subjective comparison is between a $500 basic 10" iPad vs. a 14" or 15" laptop for $500 or cheaper and your claim is the iPad beats the laptop in value for the general public which is a highly debatable claim given the iPads lack of physical keyboard and small screen.
Who talked about "crappy netbooks on a tiny screen" ? When did you last shop for laptops? 2007?
See this:
Latitude E5510 Also Includes Intel Core i3 Dual Core 2.53GHz Windows 7 Home Premium 2GB 160GB 15.6" DVD ROM $499.00
That is neither a netbook, doesn't have a tiny screen either.
Whatever the post-PC devices might be, they don't seem to be cheaper than the PC devices.
What if you replace the 160GB drive with a solid state drive? Remember, the iPad uses SSD.
Remember, the iPad uses a 10" LCD(though IPS) vs. a 15.6" (a huge % increase in area).
The problem is that you can't really compare on specs. The problem I had with the article was that it compared it to the evolution from Mainframes to Minicomputers to PCs. Each step there, the cost was an order or more of magnitude cheaper(correct me if I am wrong).
When you can get "PCs" (a cheap crappy netbook is still a PC) for $280, the comparison falls apart completely.
Eg. You can get more than decent desktops for less than $500.
See:
Vostro 230s Also Includes Intel Core 2 Duo 2.93GHz Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit 2GB 500GB 21.5" Monitor DVD ROM $499.00
My problem was the premise of the article, not about the supposed "value" of the iPad.
This is an article about past paradigm shifts and their properties in general, not about whether or not tablets are actually another such paradigm shift, isn’t it?
It's just sales copy, relax. It wasn't written for you.