Israel also has military control over the Negev (Southern District). Few would say that Israel 'occupies' that region -- just like England doesn't 'occupy' Sussex.
I have no opinion about what to do with the West Bank, but by saying that it is 'occupied' by Israel, I feel you're implying that Israel's presence there is unjustified.
The people of Sussex have long felt themselves to belong to the English nation.
Israel captured the West bank in a war. I doubt that the population of the west bank will ever be assimilated and become patriotic Israelis. Religion, let alone nationalism, guarantees this I'd say. Israel (and the US) will eventually tire of having to use the army to control the population.
Eventually Israel will have to give it up imo
Israel captured it from Jordan in 1967, which had taken it in 1948. Jordan's occupance was recognized by practically noone. Up until that time, it had been part of the British Mandate of 1922, which was an international effort to create a Jewish state.
"The territory now known as the West Bank was a part of the British Mandate of Palestine entrusted to the United Kingdom by the League of Nations after World War I. The terms of the Mandate called for the creation in Palestine of a Jewish national home without prejudicing the civil and religious rights of the non-Jewish population of Palestine. During that time the area was called by the historic names of its two regions -- Judea and Samaria." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_bank#History
"Judea (from the Hebrew: יהודה, "Tribe of Judah") was the name of the mountainous southern part of the historic Land of Israel." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea
"Samaria (Hebrew: שֹׁמְרוֹן) is a term used for a mountainous region roughly corresponding to the northern part of the West Bank. [..] "Samaria" derives from an ancient city of the same name, which was located near the south of Samaria, and was the capital of the Kingdom of Israel." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samari
Furthermore, isn't the article about Gaza at least partially also, and, isn't Gaza some sort of prison? Finally, is Israel not actually occupying these territories? I mean, is West Bank Israel and by the same token is Gaza Israel too?
Jordan took the West Bank when the British Mandate was terminated. The international community had designated it to become part of the Jewish National Home. This is also why practically noone acknowledged Jordan's rule of the West Bank. Before 1946, Jordan itself was part of the British Mandate. It was separated to create a country where Arabs from the region could live, whereas Palestine would become the Jewish National Home. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine#Te...
I don't think using ancient history, however well recorded it is or isn't is a good way to decide who owns what. We all came from somewhere else if you go back far enough. The Jews aren't the only ones with historical links to Palestine. It's not just ludicrous it's evil to suggest that white Europeans or Black Ethiopians on the basis of their religion or part of their racial heritage have more right to the territory of Palestine than Palestinians do.
My point is that it's unclear to whom the land belongs. By saying that Israel 'occupies' the region it seems like you've already decided.
Jews, Christians and Muslims all have their roots in the region. I believe they should all be able to live there, with a government that respects all faiths. For devout Christians and Jews, it's very difficult to live in Middle Eastern countries other than Israel.
Furthermore, you seem to use the term 'palestinian' as meaning a people originating in the region but different from Middle Eastern Jews and Christians. In reality, to be Palestinian is to have genetic roots in the Levant, it has nothing to do with religion. Many Jews and Orthodox Christians are Palestinians too.
Do you have similar doubts as to the ownership of Israel?
I think it's pretty clear that the West Bank belongs to the people who live there, the people commonly referred to as the Palestinians. It certainly shouldn't belong to the people living next door in Israel or to whomever they allow under the protection of Israeli military force to establish settlements there.
So the people who left Israel in 1948 and who now live with their descendants in refugee camps in Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank are free to return to Israel?
What percentage of the population of the West Bank were Jewish in 1967? The proper term for what's going on is colonisation or perhaps plantation.
If you're correct about the the majority of the West Bank population being there for less than 3 generations, then I can give you 2 reasons for this.
1: The former residents of that part of Palestine that became Israel who upon the formation of the state moved to the West Bank.
2: The increase in the Jewish population.
First you reject my data as 'ancient history', then you come up with your own arbitrary points in time to measure who should be allowed to live in the region. With that, your definition of the term 'palestinian', and your characterization of Jewish presence as 'occupation' and 'plantation', it's become clear where you stand. You think Jews and Christians have no right to live in the Middle East, and that leaves us with nothing to discuss.
Who do you think you are, Sigmund Freud?
Of course Jews and Christians have a right to live in the Middle East. I hope you are not an Israeli and if you are that you belong to the lunatic fringe.
Comments
Israel also has military control over the Negev (Southern District). Few would say that Israel 'occupies' that region -- just like England doesn't 'occupy' Sussex.
I have no opinion about what to do with the West Bank, but by saying that it is 'occupied' by Israel, I feel you're implying that Israel's presence there is unjustified.
The people of Sussex have long felt themselves to belong to the English nation. Israel captured the West bank in a war. I doubt that the population of the west bank will ever be assimilated and become patriotic Israelis. Religion, let alone nationalism, guarantees this I'd say. Israel (and the US) will eventually tire of having to use the army to control the population. Eventually Israel will have to give it up imo
"Israel captured the West bank in a war."
Israel captured it from Jordan in 1967, which had taken it in 1948. Jordan's occupance was recognized by practically noone. Up until that time, it had been part of the British Mandate of 1922, which was an international effort to create a Jewish state.
"The territory now known as the West Bank was a part of the British Mandate of Palestine entrusted to the United Kingdom by the League of Nations after World War I. The terms of the Mandate called for the creation in Palestine of a Jewish national home without prejudicing the civil and religious rights of the non-Jewish population of Palestine. During that time the area was called by the historic names of its two regions -- Judea and Samaria." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_bank#History
"Judea (from the Hebrew: יהודה, "Tribe of Judah") was the name of the mountainous southern part of the historic Land of Israel." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea
"Samaria (Hebrew: שֹׁמְרוֹן) is a term used for a mountainous region roughly corresponding to the northern part of the West Bank. [..] "Samaria" derives from an ancient city of the same name, which was located near the south of Samaria, and was the capital of the Kingdom of Israel." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samari
Had taken it in 1948 from who?
Also, remind everyone, when was Israel created?
Furthermore, isn't the article about Gaza at least partially also, and, isn't Gaza some sort of prison? Finally, is Israel not actually occupying these territories? I mean, is West Bank Israel and by the same token is Gaza Israel too?
"Had taken it in 1948 from who?"
Jordan took the West Bank when the British Mandate was terminated. The international community had designated it to become part of the Jewish National Home. This is also why practically noone acknowledged Jordan's rule of the West Bank. Before 1946, Jordan itself was part of the British Mandate. It was separated to create a country where Arabs from the region could live, whereas Palestine would become the Jewish National Home. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine#Te...
"Also, remind everyone, when was Israel created?"
About 1000 BCE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Israel_%28united_mon...
"isn't the article about Gaza at least partially also?"
Sure, and Gaza was part of the British Mandate as well. In 1922 it was designated to become part of the Jewish National Home. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gaza#British_Mandate...
I don't think using ancient history, however well recorded it is or isn't is a good way to decide who owns what. We all came from somewhere else if you go back far enough. The Jews aren't the only ones with historical links to Palestine. It's not just ludicrous it's evil to suggest that white Europeans or Black Ethiopians on the basis of their religion or part of their racial heritage have more right to the territory of Palestine than Palestinians do.
My point is that it's unclear to whom the land belongs. By saying that Israel 'occupies' the region it seems like you've already decided.
Jews, Christians and Muslims all have their roots in the region. I believe they should all be able to live there, with a government that respects all faiths. For devout Christians and Jews, it's very difficult to live in Middle Eastern countries other than Israel.
Furthermore, you seem to use the term 'palestinian' as meaning a people originating in the region but different from Middle Eastern Jews and Christians. In reality, to be Palestinian is to have genetic roots in the Levant, it has nothing to do with religion. Many Jews and Orthodox Christians are Palestinians too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people#DNA_and_gene...
Do you have similar doubts as to the ownership of Israel?
I think it's pretty clear that the West Bank belongs to the people who live there, the people commonly referred to as the Palestinians. It certainly shouldn't belong to the people living next door in Israel or to whomever they allow under the protection of Israeli military force to establish settlements there.
"Do you have similar doubts as to the ownership of Israel?"
Israel is open to all, it has freedom of religion, a constitution, and elected officials. Compare that to the other countries in the Middle East.
"I think it's pretty clear that the West Bank belongs to the people who live there, the people commonly referred to as the Palestinians."
- One quarter of the people living in the West Bank are Jewish.
- The majority of all people living in the West Bank have lived there for less than three generations.
- We can't even agree on the definition of what a 'palestinian' is.
So the people who left Israel in 1948 and who now live with their descendants in refugee camps in Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank are free to return to Israel?
What percentage of the population of the West Bank were Jewish in 1967? The proper term for what's going on is colonisation or perhaps plantation.
If you're correct about the the majority of the West Bank population being there for less than 3 generations, then I can give you 2 reasons for this. 1: The former residents of that part of Palestine that became Israel who upon the formation of the state moved to the West Bank. 2: The increase in the Jewish population.
First you reject my data as 'ancient history', then you come up with your own arbitrary points in time to measure who should be allowed to live in the region. With that, your definition of the term 'palestinian', and your characterization of Jewish presence as 'occupation' and 'plantation', it's become clear where you stand. You think Jews and Christians have no right to live in the Middle East, and that leaves us with nothing to discuss.
Who do you think you are, Sigmund Freud? Of course Jews and Christians have a right to live in the Middle East. I hope you are not an Israeli and if you are that you belong to the lunatic fringe.