This is an awesome convo BTW, thanks for providing all the detail about the industry.
Regarding our high comp industry vs theirs.. we've reinvented the world at least twice since 1985, and like I said, I haven't seen a reinvention of finance in any positive way. If they're that much more efficient now (and I agree that they are along the lines you're saying), where are the savings for the rest of the economy? I'm all about the TD Ameritrades of the world where I can do an $8 trade, that's providing value and they deserve every penny they earn. But it seems like most of the hedge funds are just playing games to extract money from less sophisticated investors.
Regarding your average comp comparison -- that's fine, I'm all about profiting from efficienbut what about the aggregate comp? Is that higher, too?
Regarding our high comp industry vs theirs.. we've reinvented the world at least twice since 1985, and like I said, I haven't seen a reinvention of finance in any positive way.
In almost every financial service that existed in 1985, margins have been cut to the bone (the main exceptions being M&A and IPO services). The commission on stock trades is now $0-8, it used to be $150, as you note.
When businesses need futures/options (mainly for hedging purposes), they often just buy them on the open market rather than contacting a GS/MS/JPM rep and paying through the nose for the privilege.
Regarding hedge funds/private equity, Warren Buffet and others have commented that there are very few hidden gems left, particularly gems detectable by financial/technical analysis. I.e., good businesses are getting more investment.
Regarding your average comp comparison -- that's fine, I'm all about profiting from efficienbut what about the aggregate comp? Is that higher, too?
It's a good question. Top traders get more, but they also tend to earn more. Good IT is certainly vastly cheaper than armies of line workers, and HFT is cheaper than human market makers. More financial services are provided today - my understanding is that credit cards were hardly pervasive in 1985, and no one would cell you a phone on quasi-credit like they do today.
I have absolutely no idea and I'd be very skeptical of anyone who claims to know.
Comments
This is an awesome convo BTW, thanks for providing all the detail about the industry.
Regarding our high comp industry vs theirs.. we've reinvented the world at least twice since 1985, and like I said, I haven't seen a reinvention of finance in any positive way. If they're that much more efficient now (and I agree that they are along the lines you're saying), where are the savings for the rest of the economy? I'm all about the TD Ameritrades of the world where I can do an $8 trade, that's providing value and they deserve every penny they earn. But it seems like most of the hedge funds are just playing games to extract money from less sophisticated investors.
Regarding your average comp comparison -- that's fine, I'm all about profiting from efficienbut what about the aggregate comp? Is that higher, too?
Regarding our high comp industry vs theirs.. we've reinvented the world at least twice since 1985, and like I said, I haven't seen a reinvention of finance in any positive way.
In almost every financial service that existed in 1985, margins have been cut to the bone (the main exceptions being M&A and IPO services). The commission on stock trades is now $0-8, it used to be $150, as you note.
When businesses need futures/options (mainly for hedging purposes), they often just buy them on the open market rather than contacting a GS/MS/JPM rep and paying through the nose for the privilege.
Regarding hedge funds/private equity, Warren Buffet and others have commented that there are very few hidden gems left, particularly gems detectable by financial/technical analysis. I.e., good businesses are getting more investment.
Regarding your average comp comparison -- that's fine, I'm all about profiting from efficienbut what about the aggregate comp? Is that higher, too?
It's a good question. Top traders get more, but they also tend to earn more. Good IT is certainly vastly cheaper than armies of line workers, and HFT is cheaper than human market makers. More financial services are provided today - my understanding is that credit cards were hardly pervasive in 1985, and no one would cell you a phone on quasi-credit like they do today.
I have absolutely no idea and I'd be very skeptical of anyone who claims to know.