Unlike being of a certain skin color or sexual orientation being overweight is actually bad for your health and both mental and physical performance. I'm not surprised bias is not falling.
But we do know homosexuality is not a health risk while obesity is very demonstrably a health risk. Are you really going to claim that obesity does not increase morbidity?
In the 80's it was considered fact that homosexuality
This is untrue. You could say "it was considered by some/many/bigoted people" but I doubt it was ever true that the same percentage of people with relevant medical experience thought homosexuality was as unhealthy as obesity.
Even if it were true, it would be a straw man unless you were also claiming that all gay people had AIDS and/or it was impossible to have gay sex without contracting HIV.
All obese people are obese. Inside that bucket of the population, some people are genetically or culturally predisposed, but some significant portion of obese people are capable of making healthier choices and are failing to do so. I don't think it's right to go out of our way to make these people unhappy, but at the same time I think it's obviously better for everyone if society encourages these people to make healthier choices.
There was at least one scientific study, by authors who don't want it used to condemn homosexuality.
Summary: Study at the height of the AIDS death rate found that homosexuality led to shortened lifespan. AIDS death rate has declined dramatically, but there has not been a followup study.
It's not their sexuality that causes the risk, it is unsafe sexual practices and increased prevalence of disease in that subpopulation. Which is to said AIDs and homosexuality correlate but homosexuality doesn't cause AIDs. Obesity causes, not just correlates, a whole slew of morbidities.
I think having negative attitudes towards unsafe sexual practices is fine. Having negative attitudes towards a sexual orientation that correlates with unsafe sexual practices is not fine. I think it is important to differentiate correlation and causation. If something causes morbidity, we should have negative attitudes towards it. If something correlates with morbidity, we need to tread carefully.
Again, obesity has a causative effect on health, sexual preferences can correlate to health outcomes but those correlations are driven by sexual practices that cause increased risk. One can be gay (or any other sexual preference) and have any level of AIDs risk (ie a celibate homosexual man has a lower risk of AIDs than a sexually active heterosexual man/woman).
"It's OK to hate them because they deserve to be hated," is your argument. Look, you aren't always wrong, but there tend to be a few factors at work here. The thing about people is that we aren't just who we are in the moment, we're the sum of our experiences to date.
If you want people to change, you have to show people not only that there are alternatives, and how to obtain the alternatives, but lastly -- and most importantly -- why they should strive for those alternatives. If you're just a dick to them, it doesn't help anyone.
Judging someone for being fat is about like judging someone for not being born rich. Eating and exercise habits are taught very young, and are very hard to change. It's very rare you see someone who is obese who wasn't put on that path by their parents.
Rather than make disparaging comments, I'm sure you have a friend who you could invite out for a jog? Or over to your place for dinners once or twice a week? Not everyone has rewards wired in the same as you do, certainly if they are obese they know it and can do without your reminder, and likely they've struggled to lose the weight and just need a bit more support.
You can either judge, and feel smug, or choose to help a friend.
Comments
Unlike being of a certain skin color or sexual orientation being overweight is actually bad for your health and both mental and physical performance. I'm not surprised bias is not falling.
That also would have been once an argument used against homosexuality.
Important to remember that AIDS was first called GRIDS (gay-related immune deficiency syndrome).
Are you saying you don't believe it's unhealthy to be obese?
No he is saying that homosexual behaviour was considered a health risk. There were plenty of bigots who even called aids punishment from god.
But we do know homosexuality is not a health risk while obesity is very demonstrably a health risk. Are you really going to claim that obesity does not increase morbidity?
In the 80's it was considered fact that homosexuality was a health risk. AIDs was a huge concern.
This is untrue. You could say "it was considered by some/many/bigoted people" but I doubt it was ever true that the same percentage of people with relevant medical experience thought homosexuality was as unhealthy as obesity.
Even if it were true, it would be a straw man unless you were also claiming that all gay people had AIDS and/or it was impossible to have gay sex without contracting HIV.
All obese people are obese. Inside that bucket of the population, some people are genetically or culturally predisposed, but some significant portion of obese people are capable of making healthier choices and are failing to do so. I don't think it's right to go out of our way to make these people unhappy, but at the same time I think it's obviously better for everyone if society encourages these people to make healthier choices.
That was just fearmongering, we have countless studies today that state obesity is linked to a higher overall mortality rate.
There was at least one scientific study, by authors who don't want it used to condemn homosexuality.
Summary: Study at the height of the AIDS death rate found that homosexuality led to shortened lifespan. AIDS death rate has declined dramatically, but there has not been a followup study.
Here's a politifact analysis: https://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2012/jun/07/b...
More recently, a 2014 pro-LGBT study claimed to show a shortened lifespan, attributed to prejudice: https://www.medicaldaily.com/can-prejudice-kill-you-lesbian-... though this failed replication ("No effect found") https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027795361...
It's not. Even today, 67% of new cases of AIDs are among gay and bisexual men[1].
I don't argue that obesity isn't bad for you, but the issue is more complex, and I don't think it's right to stigmatize people for it.
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html
It's not their sexuality that causes the risk, it is unsafe sexual practices and increased prevalence of disease in that subpopulation. Which is to said AIDs and homosexuality correlate but homosexuality doesn't cause AIDs. Obesity causes, not just correlates, a whole slew of morbidities.
So their practicing of unsafe sexual practices would have justified the ostracization?
I think having negative attitudes towards unsafe sexual practices is fine. Having negative attitudes towards a sexual orientation that correlates with unsafe sexual practices is not fine. I think it is important to differentiate correlation and causation. If something causes morbidity, we should have negative attitudes towards it. If something correlates with morbidity, we need to tread carefully.
Well it is a greater health risk to engage in male homosexual sex than any typical heterosexaul or lesbian sex.
Regardless, unlike obesity, no one can remove their homosexuality and it is fairly insulting to suggest that.
Again, obesity has a causative effect on health, sexual preferences can correlate to health outcomes but those correlations are driven by sexual practices that cause increased risk. One can be gay (or any other sexual preference) and have any level of AIDs risk (ie a celibate homosexual man has a lower risk of AIDs than a sexually active heterosexual man/woman).
"It's OK to hate them because they deserve to be hated," is your argument. Look, you aren't always wrong, but there tend to be a few factors at work here. The thing about people is that we aren't just who we are in the moment, we're the sum of our experiences to date.
If you want people to change, you have to show people not only that there are alternatives, and how to obtain the alternatives, but lastly -- and most importantly -- why they should strive for those alternatives. If you're just a dick to them, it doesn't help anyone.
Judging someone for being fat is about like judging someone for not being born rich. Eating and exercise habits are taught very young, and are very hard to change. It's very rare you see someone who is obese who wasn't put on that path by their parents.
Rather than make disparaging comments, I'm sure you have a friend who you could invite out for a jog? Or over to your place for dinners once or twice a week? Not everyone has rewards wired in the same as you do, certainly if they are obese they know it and can do without your reminder, and likely they've struggled to lose the weight and just need a bit more support.
You can either judge, and feel smug, or choose to help a friend.
I would tend to argue that institutional racism is also bad for your health and mental well-being.
Sure it is, but institutional racism isn't a trait or property of any individual that they have control over.