Since you asked... I've always thought you should be a bit more rigorous about eliminating the sorts of "rah rah!" topics that get people fired up. That's not a technical solution, but it's not really a technical problem either.
What I mean by "rah rah" things includes political articles that make people think "right on!" Paul B's article on Proposition 19 falls into that category for me: I strongly agree with him.
But when I step back and look, I think that I don't want to read everyone's "rah rah" articles because they tend towards flame wars, and, if opposing views are trampled to the point where those people go elsewhere, group think. I also think that, since they are topics that anyone can have an opinion on, that they are much more likely to draw people only marginally interested in the core topics of "hacker news". Those people in turn will submit more articles about politics. At a certain point a few days ago, between Prop 19, John Carmack's libertarianish views, and something else I don't recall, the top three spots on HN were occupied about articles that were essentially political in nature.
I would much prefer that articles like that one, much as I agree with it, and think Paul B is an awesome guy and a great contributor here, were ruthless pruned from this site.
What you're talking about is the primacy of emotional alignment vs intellectual improvement. That is, identifying with the emotional content (like you said - "RIGHT ON!" or "NO WAY!") vs reading content that causes emotions.
The former is, of course, the Twinkie of human growth. HN is becoming Twinkie-ville. Reddit is Twinkie-ville already, but it's Twinkie-ville with a sparkling sense of humor, which HN lacks (cultural difference).
Granted, we're all emotional creatures first and foremost -- false impressions of reason aside -- but… there's something that's dramatically changed in the last two months. Don't you think?
Even the non-emotional-alignment stuff is more boring. Boring things stay on the front page longer. Articles that would normally have captured the HN spirit languish.
What's going on?
I almost miss the "What makes an entrepreneur?" pr0n.
That's something I wish HN could find a middle ground on. I _like_ Reddit. It's fun, and if you don't like the conversation, you can hide it and move on.
On HN, I can chat with some of the most influential people in technology, and it's great. But the moment anyone cracks a joke? Downvoted, sometimes in to oblivion.
I find it hard to believe such a sharp group of people would be so averse to humor, but the votes seem to indicate that.
The reason seems to be that HNers feel like they have to project an ultra-logical persona at all times. Even Spock-like. How'd it get started? I wish I knew.
It's not just jokes. I've experimented: I can make the most insightful and practical comment in the whole thread, but if I use "cuz" or "gonna," or "man," or more than a single (maybe two) exclamation points in the whole thing, no upvotes for me! But the more pseudo-intellectual trappings I pile on -- for example, eschewing contractions -- the more votes I get.
Mentioning a logical fallacy, even if it is itself fallacious, always works a treat.
I think that's why I've been spending more time back at Reddit than HN lately. They talk about the same stuff with the same depth, but they have more fun doing it.
Even Einstein wasn't afraid to stick his tongue out for the camera.
I've had humorous comments voted up here. IMO, the reason why is that they were actually funny in an original way, and perhaps not so blatantly, "ha ha" obvious to the casual observer as some of what passes for humor on reddit.
For example. I've seen others upvoted too, but it's mostly only for genuinely funny stuff that's not some tired, bedraggled "meme". The other thing is that it's nice not to have too much of it - people "clowning around" just for the sake of attracting votes.
Color me illiterate, but I couldn't find where on Reddit they talk about the same stuff? The startup subreddit looks dead and the programming reddit is quite different. I'd love a link or name!
As for other stuff, the stories you see on HN still end up there. Try to submit one and it'll point you to the story if it's been submitted. And if it hasn't been, anyone can submit stories.
Comments
Since you asked... I've always thought you should be a bit more rigorous about eliminating the sorts of "rah rah!" topics that get people fired up. That's not a technical solution, but it's not really a technical problem either.
What I mean by "rah rah" things includes political articles that make people think "right on!" Paul B's article on Proposition 19 falls into that category for me: I strongly agree with him.
But when I step back and look, I think that I don't want to read everyone's "rah rah" articles because they tend towards flame wars, and, if opposing views are trampled to the point where those people go elsewhere, group think. I also think that, since they are topics that anyone can have an opinion on, that they are much more likely to draw people only marginally interested in the core topics of "hacker news". Those people in turn will submit more articles about politics. At a certain point a few days ago, between Prop 19, John Carmack's libertarianish views, and something else I don't recall, the top three spots on HN were occupied about articles that were essentially political in nature.
I would much prefer that articles like that one, much as I agree with it, and think Paul B is an awesome guy and a great contributor here, were ruthless pruned from this site.
The proximity of an election is likely a factor in this.
That's a good point; hopefully it will subside afterwards.
There's always another election and another hot-button topic right around the corner.
What you're talking about is the primacy of emotional alignment vs intellectual improvement. That is, identifying with the emotional content (like you said - "RIGHT ON!" or "NO WAY!") vs reading content that causes emotions.
The former is, of course, the Twinkie of human growth. HN is becoming Twinkie-ville. Reddit is Twinkie-ville already, but it's Twinkie-ville with a sparkling sense of humor, which HN lacks (cultural difference).
Granted, we're all emotional creatures first and foremost -- false impressions of reason aside -- but… there's something that's dramatically changed in the last two months. Don't you think?
Even the non-emotional-alignment stuff is more boring. Boring things stay on the front page longer. Articles that would normally have captured the HN spirit languish.
What's going on?
I almost miss the "What makes an entrepreneur?" pr0n.
That's something I wish HN could find a middle ground on. I _like_ Reddit. It's fun, and if you don't like the conversation, you can hide it and move on.
On HN, I can chat with some of the most influential people in technology, and it's great. But the moment anyone cracks a joke? Downvoted, sometimes in to oblivion.
I find it hard to believe such a sharp group of people would be so averse to humor, but the votes seem to indicate that.
The reason seems to be that HNers feel like they have to project an ultra-logical persona at all times. Even Spock-like. How'd it get started? I wish I knew.
It's not just jokes. I've experimented: I can make the most insightful and practical comment in the whole thread, but if I use "cuz" or "gonna," or "man," or more than a single (maybe two) exclamation points in the whole thing, no upvotes for me! But the more pseudo-intellectual trappings I pile on -- for example, eschewing contractions -- the more votes I get.
Mentioning a logical fallacy, even if it is itself fallacious, always works a treat.
It's pretty silly.
I think that's why I've been spending more time back at Reddit than HN lately. They talk about the same stuff with the same depth, but they have more fun doing it.
Even Einstein wasn't afraid to stick his tongue out for the camera.
I've had humorous comments voted up here. IMO, the reason why is that they were actually funny in an original way, and perhaps not so blatantly, "ha ha" obvious to the casual observer as some of what passes for humor on reddit.
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=458155
For example. I've seen others upvoted too, but it's mostly only for genuinely funny stuff that's not some tired, bedraggled "meme". The other thing is that it's nice not to have too much of it - people "clowning around" just for the sake of attracting votes.
Color me illiterate, but I couldn't find where on Reddit they talk about the same stuff? The startup subreddit looks dead and the programming reddit is quite different. I'd love a link or name!
Here you go: http://www.reddit.com/r/Entrepreneur/
As for other stuff, the stories you see on HN still end up there. Try to submit one and it'll point you to the story if it's been submitted. And if it hasn't been, anyone can submit stories.