I think rather than trying to bribe children to go to school because they hate it they should instead concentrate on making school actually interesting.
Personally i feel that most school systems are factories that teach kids to be test takers, not question authority, not think for themselves and do it the way they're told because thats the way its always been done.
How about we provide some intrinsic motivation instead, make school interesting. Basic reading, writing and arithmetic should be compulsory but let kids choose whatever they want to learn after that.
I also dont think we really need teachers in specific subjects, generalist teachers that work with kids to support them could help a child create his own curriculum, the internet makes this a very real possibility these days.
First off, I think it's worth noting that the current system of motivation, based on grades, is hardly better than straight up bribery, it's just that the theoretical rewards of the "bribe" (good college, great career, etc.) are so far in the future that they're pretty much invisible to most of the people in the system, except for the truly pathetic worry-wart-weiner-dogs that actually change their actions based on potential ten-year-hence consequences as high school students (which, I realize, is a category that many of us fall into, and there's probably something wrong with that, but now's not the time or the place...I was one of them, so I'm not going to cast stones).
I think rather than trying to bribe children to go to school because they hate it they should instead concentrate on making school actually interesting.
And I think rather than trying to bribe adults into doing work because they hate it it would be fantastic if we could try to make it interesting instead, so they would want to do it without compensation.
Of course, failing that, we have to pay them, because it's more useful to have a person do a dollar's worth of work for a "cheap" reason such as money than it is to keep the dollar in our pocket. Doesn't matter how nice it would be if the person really desired to do that work of their own accord, it's worth more to us to pay them than it is not to, so we do it.
Where's that analysis here?
From my interactions tutoring the hideously under-interested youth of America, at least the rich parents that care about such things would almost certainly be far better off (dollars and cents-wise) paying their kids a nominal wage to do their f-ing homework than they are paying me $80/hr to sit with them and force them to do it - even if I am there to answer the occasional question and review the material in a (hopefully?) more comprehensible way than the teachers might at school, in my experience the real gains are simply achieved by forcing kids to think about the topic for a certain amount of extra time every week, which they typically would never do on their own.
Basic reading, writing and arithmetic should be compulsory but let kids choose whatever they want to learn after that.
I'm all in favor of that idea. But you may underestimate the extent to which we're not even covering reading, writing, and arithmetic the way things stand. As educated people we tend to assume that everyone else is at least in the same ballpark as us, but look...those comments that you see all the time on YouTube, and chuckle at, assuming they're written by non-native English speakers? They are, in fact, pretty close to the average quality of the prose you'll get if you ask an average classroom of American students to write an essay.
> Personally i feel that most school systems are factories that teach kids to be test takers, not question authority, not think for themselves and do it the way they're told because thats the way its always been done.
All of those are true. The American public education system is actually based on the Prussian education system. John Taylor Gatto writes about this in "Against School" and argues that this education system is actually designed to make the public mass more "manageable." It also helps to turn us into major consumers.
For research sake, I think it's worth to try. As for whether it's going to be implemented, it needs to be analyzed and planned properly. Don't make children think it's so easy to earn money.
I think the problem with nowadays education is they are very bounded with curriculum. Schools shouldn't be a place just to learn, but also to have fun, socialize, make friends.
I thought that's how it works everywhere? I'm from NZ, you must take English and Maths up until a certain age, otherwise just pick your other four subjects and enjoy.
What's the variety for your other four subjects? If you can take a year of nothing but physics (or computer science) in high school/junior high, then NZ rocks, but I'd guess they're just giving you an illusion of choice while still forcing you through the general education classes since that's all there is. Not to mention prerequisite hell plagues all hierarchical forms of education and if you don't have understanding administrators it's really hard to move ahead when "you're not supposed to."
Kids begin with a boundless inquisitiveness and enthusiasm for learning, yet the drudgery of the school system burns that out of most kids quite rapidly.
Comments
I think rather than trying to bribe children to go to school because they hate it they should instead concentrate on making school actually interesting.
Personally i feel that most school systems are factories that teach kids to be test takers, not question authority, not think for themselves and do it the way they're told because thats the way its always been done.
How about we provide some intrinsic motivation instead, make school interesting. Basic reading, writing and arithmetic should be compulsory but let kids choose whatever they want to learn after that.
I also dont think we really need teachers in specific subjects, generalist teachers that work with kids to support them could help a child create his own curriculum, the internet makes this a very real possibility these days.
First off, I think it's worth noting that the current system of motivation, based on grades, is hardly better than straight up bribery, it's just that the theoretical rewards of the "bribe" (good college, great career, etc.) are so far in the future that they're pretty much invisible to most of the people in the system, except for the truly pathetic worry-wart-weiner-dogs that actually change their actions based on potential ten-year-hence consequences as high school students (which, I realize, is a category that many of us fall into, and there's probably something wrong with that, but now's not the time or the place...I was one of them, so I'm not going to cast stones).
I think rather than trying to bribe children to go to school because they hate it they should instead concentrate on making school actually interesting.
And I think rather than trying to bribe adults into doing work because they hate it it would be fantastic if we could try to make it interesting instead, so they would want to do it without compensation.
Of course, failing that, we have to pay them, because it's more useful to have a person do a dollar's worth of work for a "cheap" reason such as money than it is to keep the dollar in our pocket. Doesn't matter how nice it would be if the person really desired to do that work of their own accord, it's worth more to us to pay them than it is not to, so we do it.
Where's that analysis here?
From my interactions tutoring the hideously under-interested youth of America, at least the rich parents that care about such things would almost certainly be far better off (dollars and cents-wise) paying their kids a nominal wage to do their f-ing homework than they are paying me $80/hr to sit with them and force them to do it - even if I am there to answer the occasional question and review the material in a (hopefully?) more comprehensible way than the teachers might at school, in my experience the real gains are simply achieved by forcing kids to think about the topic for a certain amount of extra time every week, which they typically would never do on their own.
Basic reading, writing and arithmetic should be compulsory but let kids choose whatever they want to learn after that.
I'm all in favor of that idea. But you may underestimate the extent to which we're not even covering reading, writing, and arithmetic the way things stand. As educated people we tend to assume that everyone else is at least in the same ballpark as us, but look...those comments that you see all the time on YouTube, and chuckle at, assuming they're written by non-native English speakers? They are, in fact, pretty close to the average quality of the prose you'll get if you ask an average classroom of American students to write an essay.
> Personally i feel that most school systems are factories that teach kids to be test takers, not question authority, not think for themselves and do it the way they're told because thats the way its always been done.
All of those are true. The American public education system is actually based on the Prussian education system. John Taylor Gatto writes about this in "Against School" and argues that this education system is actually designed to make the public mass more "manageable." It also helps to turn us into major consumers.
For research sake, I think it's worth to try. As for whether it's going to be implemented, it needs to be analyzed and planned properly. Don't make children think it's so easy to earn money.
I think the problem with nowadays education is they are very bounded with curriculum. Schools shouldn't be a place just to learn, but also to have fun, socialize, make friends.
I thought that's how it works everywhere? I'm from NZ, you must take English and Maths up until a certain age, otherwise just pick your other four subjects and enjoy.
What's the variety for your other four subjects? If you can take a year of nothing but physics (or computer science) in high school/junior high, then NZ rocks, but I'd guess they're just giving you an illusion of choice while still forcing you through the general education classes since that's all there is. Not to mention prerequisite hell plagues all hierarchical forms of education and if you don't have understanding administrators it's really hard to move ahead when "you're not supposed to."
Why "rather than"? Do this if it works. If there are other methods that also pan out well, do them too.
Kids begin with a boundless inquisitiveness and enthusiasm for learning, yet the drudgery of the school system burns that out of most kids quite rapidly.